I think he wants them back

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  • wobbly
    Prophet
    • May 2012
    • 2631

    #16
    I'm a little surprised the phial doesn't give rdark.

    Comment

    • Timo Pietilä
      Prophet
      • Apr 2007
      • 4096

      #17
      Originally posted by wobbly
      I'm a little surprised the phial doesn't give rdark.
      (repeated) IMO Phial should be the strongest of the light sources. Other two are just trinkets, Phial is made as light source.

      Comment

      • Ingwe Ingweron
        Veteran
        • Jan 2009
        • 2129

        #18
        Originally posted by Timo Pietilä
        (repeated) IMO Phial should be the strongest of the light sources. Other two are just trinkets, Phial is made as light source.
        I don't think of the other two as mere trinkets. Am I missing something from Tolkien lore?
        “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
        ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

        Comment

        • Derakon
          Prophet
          • Dec 2009
          • 9022

          #19
          Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
          I don't think of the other two as mere trinkets. Am I missing something from Tolkien lore?
          The Arkenstone is just a really fancy gem, isn't it? The Star of Elendil may contain some of the light of the Silmarils though.

          Comment

          • Bimbul
            Adept
            • Sep 2015
            • 140

            #20
            I ditched the Phial for Star of Elendil last game - mapping was more useful since I was a rogue with cast light spell.

            Comment

            • Ingwe Ingweron
              Veteran
              • Jan 2009
              • 2129

              #21
              Originally posted by Derakon
              The Arkenstone is just a really fancy gem, isn't it? The Star of Elendil may contain some of the light of the Silmarils though.
              "t was a globe with a thousand facets; it shone like silver in the firelight, like water in the sun, like snow under the stars, like rain upon the Moon!"

              "The Arkenstone shone of its own inner light, and appeared a little globe of pallid light in darkness, and yet, cut and fashioned by the Dwarves, it took all light that fell upon it and changed it into ten thousand sparks of white radiance, shot with glints of the rainbow."

              Some say that the Arkenstone is in fact, the Silmaril of Maedhros, but there is no evidence one way or the other.
              “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
              ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

              Comment

              • Derakon
                Prophet
                • Dec 2009
                • 9022

                #22
                Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
                "t was a globe with a thousand facets; it shone like silver in the firelight, like water in the sun, like snow under the stars, like rain upon the Moon!"

                "The Arkenstone shone of its own inner light, and appeared a little globe of pallid light in darkness, and yet, cut and fashioned by the Dwarves, it took all light that fell upon it and changed it into ten thousand sparks of white radiance, shot with glints of the rainbow."

                Some say that the Arkenstone is in fact, the Silmaril of Maedhros, but there is no evidence one way or the other.
                Okay, if we treat it as a Silmaril then it deserves to be the highest light source, since the Star and Phial merely contain a fragment of a Silmaril's light (er, I think).

                Comment

                • krugar
                  Apprentice
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 76

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Derakon
                  Okay, if we treat it as a Silmaril then it deserves to be the highest light source, since the Star and Phial merely contain a fragment of a Silmaril's light (er, I think).
                  Sort of. The Phial is sort of the fork of a fork of the original code
                  It contains a portion of water from Galadriel's fountain which she claims holds the light of the Two Trees. Since this light has been said to be preserved only in the Silmarils, I quite never understood Galadriel's claim.

                  The Star however is one of the three Silmaril. The one currently sent to the skies. The other two are lost in the earth and the sea.

                  EDIT: Nevermind that last paragraph. That would be the Star of Earendil, not Elendil... I just realized what "Star" the game is referring to, and the names have always been confusing to me. However, there were two gems called the star of Elendil. The first was the real artifact, the second was just a copy made after the first was lost. I doubt the second contained the light of the Two Trees, because the Silmarils were already lost by the time Isildur died and the original gem was lost...
                  Last edited by krugar; November 28, 2015, 10:09.

                  Comment

                  • Bimbul
                    Adept
                    • Sep 2015
                    • 140

                    #24
                    Since the Sun and the Moon are both the last fruits or Laurelin and Telperion - it is manifest that the light is not only in the Silmarils.

                    Getting consistency out of the unfinished writings of Tolkien is never going to happen.

                    Also since the evening star is a Slimarll (and imagine how bright it would be up close and personal) I find it hard to imagine that a silmaril would shine with a 'pallid' light - so personally I'd reject the proposal that the Arkenstone was Maedhros' silmaril.

                    Comment

                    • Nick
                      Vanilla maintainer
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 9637

                      #25
                      Originally posted by krugar
                      It contains a portion of water from Galadriel's fountain which she claims holds the light of the Two Trees. Since this light has been said to be preserved only in the Silmarils, I quite never understood Galadriel's claim.
                      I think all Galadriel says is that it holds the light of Eärendil's Star - which in fact is a Silmaril. The Star of Elendil was an "Elvish crystal", and I would take the idea of the Arkenstone being a Silmaril with a grain of salt.

                      All in all, I don't know precisely which order I'd put them in if starting afresh, so I'm inclined to say leave them where they are. It's also worth noting that the Phial's activation is spot on.
                      One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                      In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                      Comment

                      • krugar
                        Apprentice
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 76

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Bimbul
                        Since the Sun and the Moon are both the last fruits or Laurelin and Telperion - it is manifest that the light is not only in the Silmarils.

                        Getting consistency out of the unfinished writings of Tolkien is never going to happen.
                        I'm with the dwarves; The elves are full of it

                        Originally posted by Nick
                        The Star of Elendil was an "Elvish crystal"
                        Note that the first one -- the one lost with Isildur death and only later found after Sauron's defeat -- was reputedly something more. Isildur's death was a direct result of the gem shining brighter and reddish "in anger" when Isildur put the One Ring, and thus betraying his position to the orcs. (Unfortunately on the movies, the ring is said to have betrayed Isildur. Most certainly not.)

                        The second one was indeed a simple elvish gem, with no known special properties.

                        Comment

                        • Bimbul
                          Adept
                          • Sep 2015
                          • 140

                          #27
                          I think you can get away with saying the Ring can betray its keeper provided that person/being is not Sauron.

                          After all it 'betrayed' both Gollum (escaping from him when the dark power reawoke in Dol Guldur) and Frodo (betraying his presence to the Nazgul in Bree iirc). So personally I think you can stretch that to it betraying him the Gladden Fields.

                          I know what you mean though.

                          Yay for Tolkien geek-talk

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