Warrior Fun

[Bogatyr]

For pure casters (Mages and Priests) maxing your key stat is important since it gets you more mana and lower failure rates. For priest, the difference between say 27 and 28 mana points is an extra OoD which can be the difference between killing Mugash (for example) and just wounding him.

Yes I agree with this. mage with anything less than max INT is a 'hybrid/challenge' character, that will take a LOT longer to get started. The exception is high elf, where max INT is 18/60, which gives no real advantage over 18/50, those points could be better placed elsewhere (STR, or CON)

[wobbly]

Yes I agree with this. mage with anything less than max INT is a 'hybrid/challenge' character, that will take a LOT longer to get started. The exception is high elf, where max INT is 18/60, which gives no real advantage over 18/50, those points could be better placed elsewhere (STR, or CON)

What about the half-troll mage? Personally I'd be inclined to at least grab the strength to swing a heavy weapon and wear some armour and lean on devices till I fixed int. Though whether that's ideal or not I'm not sure.

Edit: Ok, gave it a try with half troll mage. 6 in str/int/con, 2 in dex. The internet on my PC is down so I can't take a dump but here is my 1st run:

223 0' killed farmer maggot
359 100' lvl 2
365 100' lvl 3
615 200' lvl 4
706 200' lvl 5
897 200' lvl 6
1201 200' lvl 7
1472 250' lvl 8
2226 350' lvl 9
2488 450' lvl 10
2842 450' lvl 11
3072 500' lvl 12
3491 500' lvl 13
3523 500' killed Lagduf, the Snaga
3570 550' recalled to avoid panther

As a gauge of difficulty & speed the whole thing was thrown out by Maggot dropping a holy avenger maul, but I did find I could mage simply by buying a wand of magic missile and using the books for utility.

Found a couple of book 2's in dungeon. Found wand of light for orc blasting in dungeon.

[Bogatyr]

What about the half-troll mage?

I've tried it a few times and didn't like it. Felt like ranger: couldn't cast, couldn't melee.

The "max INT, rest to STR" gnome mage has a 13 (14?) str which is enough carrying capacity to avoid slowness until stat gain. Armor doesn't interest me since I totally avoid melee with mages early on.

I might try one again with all points to CON and see what happens, if that solves the HP problem of mid game mages.

[brbrbr]

I might try one again with all points to CON and see what happens, if that solves the HP problem of mid game mages.

Please do.
Otherwise I would try Dunadan or High-Elf instead.

[Bogatyr]

Please do.
Otherwise I would try Dunadan or High-Elf instead.

I started another HT mage, this time with 18 starting CON, and the rest split with INT and STR. It plays OK with magic missile and has decent HP at clev 10, but I fear it will hit a wall in the late beginning with not being able to do enough damage with spells since the fail rates above level 1 spells are so high and SP is too low.

Mages just don't need much HP until they encounter serious distance attacks, and a lot of those can be avoided either with stealth, or with hockey stick corridors.

I've played HE mages most of my Angband life, they're a fine combo but gain levels too slowly.

[wobbly]

I started another HT mage, this time with 18 starting CON, and the rest split with INT and STR. It plays OK with magic missile and has decent HP at clev 10, but I fear it will hit a wall in the late beginning with not being able to do enough damage with spells since the fail rates above level 1 spells are so high and SP is too low.

It's not so bad if you can gain enough levels to drop the fail rate. With a ring of accuracy & a heavy dice weapon you can melee. With devices you can blast. A shooter of accuracy will out perform most spells. With 2 mouse rings you can play like a rogue: just detect, avoid, teleport. Eventually you'll find int boosters & can mage properly.

[PowerWyrm]

I tend to find HT mages really easy, even if you start with less INT, because of the STR boost + sustain and the regen. My starting stats are 17 17 8 8 11. You can easily spam MM/resting without losing too many turns, and even if you go out of mana, your starting STR allows you to finish off stuff in melee, almost as easily as any priest at that point.

[wobbly]

Also keep in mind that if your not wearing heavy armour or using a lots of staffs then you're literally strong enough to be carrying: 40 !ccw, 40 ?holy chant & 40 !heroism. Doesn't matter that you're a mage, with those buffs/heals you can bash through about anything in the 1st 1500' feet or so. Just phase & heal, or use slows & haste.

Half troll mage is like starting as a priest but better utility spells & ending as a mage with extra hps.

[Bogatyr]

I'm making some progress with HT mage. Artifact dagger means melee against orc packs is realistic (still only 1 blow/round, terrible DEX). He's still a really crappy fighter, though, so a significant amount of HP is lost in most semi-serious fights. MM for popcorn, or to mop up frightened runners. May even wear Pauren as a swap for the fire bolt activation. At clev 11 he didn't even get 1 more spell to study, I thought that was odd. Fast regen is nice. Bigger hit dice and now 18/20 CON (with whip of Westernesse from the temple) means more HP breathing room with crowds.

Not a bad char, I may try to see it through. I still think gnome is the ultimate mage race, though.

The trade off is that he will need now to hang out in stat gain for more INT instead of CON.

[Bogatyr]

I WON!

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=18312

That was 3rd attempt with Dwarf Warrior. I am getting better at angband!!
I LOVE warriors. I can progress incredibly quickly with that class.
DL40 in 2 hours,
DL60 in 2 days,
then another 2 days to creep on tiptoes to DL99.

For Morgoth battle I didn't have enough healing, but he didn't manastorm alot. He did summon a lot, and for that an empty Staff of *Destruction* + Scroll of Recharging worked perfectly.

Few.. Relief. Whatever you say about road being more important than destination... Winning is the ultimate goal, and I've DONE it!

The next is Priest.
Question: Should I inflate all points to WIS or leave them as default????

I wonder how you do it. Maybe my majority mage play just makes me too cautious. My warriors sometimes go FOREVER without rods of detection or (the much more critical telepathy). I have a few warrior chars sitting partially completed that I play a level or two on from time to time. No detection and no telepathy means I can't see *anything* coming, and one is around DL40 and it's torture. I can't tell where anything is. One on one, he can kill most things, but I can't tell when I'm about to be surrounded.

[wobbly]

Artifact dagger means melee against orc packs is realistic (still only 1 blow/round, terrible DEX).

My own strategy with orc packs is that either spamming a wand of light or a wand of stinking cloud then recharging is more pleasant. Sure you can bash them, but it's slow, it's painful, they don't melt the same way etc. Wands of light work for trolls,dark elves & wraiths too.

wand of frost bolts will turn hydras into gold. Alchemy right there.

edit: Suggestion/question - why does vanilla lack a dedicated device class?

[Bogatyr]

My own strategy with orc packs is that either spamming a wand of light or a wand of stinking cloud then recharging is more pleasant. Sure you can bash them, but it's slow, it's painful, they don't melt the same way etc. Wands of light work for trolls,dark elves & wraiths too.

wand of frost bolts will turn hydras into gold. Alchemy right there.

edit: Suggestion/question - why does vanilla lack a dedicated device class?

I certainly love the light/melting effect. My favorite is fire against vampires, and yes cold against Hydras. You can afford dungeon spellboks in the BM after a good Hydra pit (200K+ sometimes with some good adamantine drops!)

[Bimbul]

I'm clearly doing hydra pits wrong - it's my favourite use for a scroll of banishment.

[brbrbr]

I wonder how you do it. Maybe my majority mage play just makes me too cautious. My warriors sometimes go FOREVER without rods of detection or (the much more critical telepathy). I have a few warrior chars sitting partially completed that I play a level or two on from time to time. No detection and no telepathy means I can't see *anything* coming, and one is around DL40 and it's torture. I can't tell where anything is. One on one, he can kill most things, but I can't tell when I'm about to be surrounded

I don't feel warriors need Detection as much as mages do. Of all warrior games I used the Rod more as a convenience to replace Detect Treasure+Traps, rather than source of monster disposition intel.
With so much HP and Infravision you can survive any unplanned monster encounter up to dl80. Not only survive, but win. Warrior is a tank hard to stop. Above DL80 you'd already find ESP.
Surrounding is also not an issue, as you fight mostly in corridors, not rooms. And you already know which monsters like to hang in packs.
Besides, Staff of Detect Evil is easy to buy in shop, if you want to make an informed decision on opening a vault.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I'm clearly doing hydra pits wrong - it's my favourite use for a scroll of banishment.

That sounds like a waste of a precious ?Banishment to me. I save those for the end-game fight with Morgoth, or, in a pinch, to get rid of particularly troublesome nasties when raiding a vault or some such. Hydra pits are a source of massive $$$, and I usually take out one or two, but generally I just avoid them.