Warrior Fun

[brbrbr]

In my experience you don't need to care about escape scrolls being destroyed. They only get used rarely, so you can always find enough of them.

Mine RNG is greedier than yours.
For the last two games I get to level 80 and I found no more than 2 scrolls of destruction and 3 scrolls of teleport level.
Banishment was more common, worked well on Wyrms and Hounds.

I am re-analyzing the game again. Both warrior attempts ended at level 80, in both games i had very little problems and no close calls up to that level. It seems to me DL80 is the pivot point for warrior. I have to change play style and start thinking ahead. Really, up to DL80 there were no need to care about LoS. Really, not at all.

And if there are no solid escapes, I shouldn't have get close to Feagwath. No excuses here as I had 4 (Four) rods of Detection, 2 (two) staffs of mapping in addition to telepathy.

The pivot point for Ranger was DL50.

[Derakon]

Mine RNG is greedier than yours.
For the last two games I get to level 80 and I found no more than 2 scrolls of destruction and 3 scrolls of teleport level.
Banishment was more common, worked well on Wyrms and Hounds.

I am re-analyzing the game again. Both warrior attempts ended at level 80, in both games i had very little problems and no close calls up to that level. It seems to me DL80 is the pivot point for warrior. I have to change play style and start thinking ahead. Really, up to DL80 there were no need to care about LoS. Really, not at all.

And if there are no solid escapes, I shouldn't have get close to Feagwath. No excuses here as I had 4 (Four) rods of Detection, 2 (two) staffs of mapping in addition to telepathy.

The pivot point for Ranger was DL50.

Careful that you aren't seeing patterns that aren't there. There are plenty of situations where you need to worry about LOS that show up before level 80. It's just that you don't always get punished for ignoring LOS, because monsters behave randomly.

In fact, there's hardly anything new in the game between levels 60 and 100 except for new unique monsters, and you should always be careful around remotely-in-depth uniques.

[Bogatyr]

Careful that you aren't seeing patterns that aren't there. There are plenty of situations where you need to worry about LOS that show up before level 80. It's just that you don't always get punished for ignoring LOS, because monsters behave randomly.

In fact, there's hardly anything new in the game between levels 60 and 100 except for new unique monsters, and you should always be careful around remotely-in-depth uniques.

Definitely agree here. It's the "there are no serious dangers, I'm stronger than anything/everything around me" mindset that gets players killed more than any other.

Oh, and a note to mages: when fighting monsters with stun attack and when you don't have stun resist, make *sure* you have a single-action guaranteed escape out of LoS available that doesn't involve casting a spell. It could be something as simple as standing on a corner and stepping around the corner.

This is why I never, ever allow myself into LoS of monsters whose attacks include teleportation and debuffing all in one (gravity hounds, force hounds). They ruin your LoS control and speed/spell-success, etc all in one. Deadly for mages. Same for plasma attacks: you must have a guaranteed safe exit or step aside for undoing the stun outside of any monster's LoS. Create doors ahead of time is a must, for those situations where there are no corners to step behind, just closing a door so you can heal safely is critical.

[brbrbr]

Definitely agree here. It's the "there are no serious dangers, I'm stronger than anything/everything around me" mindset that gets players killed more than any other.

I started playing again and in just two days get my Dwarf #3 to DL80. It is amazing how quick I can progress with warrior.
This time though, RNG is very mean - very few artifacts, very little constitution. That *disciplines* me to play more carefully.

Oh, and a note to mages: when fighting monsters with stun attack and when you don't have stun resist, make *sure* you have a single-action guaranteed escape out of LoS available that doesn't involve casting a spell. It could be something as simple as standing on a corner and stepping around the corner.

Two steps away from entry is where I do most of my fights. Is it what you talking about?
If you stand on a corner, you'd be in LOS even if you step around it. You'd have to make two steps, two actions.
When I was playing mage stairs were my best friends. I wouldn't go far from them.

I missed Jabberwock again. (I am going to repaint it in Purple)
But this time I had *Destruction* with me and escaped the near death.
I made it a point to carry all *Dest*, *Banish*, *Teleport L* scrolls with me. Hell lot of them get burned, but at least I have at least one guaranteed escape at any time. Hopefully they will start to drop more often, as I have to have some for final battle.

So far, so good. Hopefully with care and attention I will make it to Morgy.

Interesting moment - the only source of telephaty was Theoden, which had pitiful damage and no free action. So I carried it as a swap. One moment I forgot to swap it back right in the middle of pack of ghouls. Oh man, what a sinking feeling it was to press more, more, more, more... waiting for death to come. By a piece of luck it stopped somehow and I get away.

Another interesting experience - nexus hound swapped my huge DEX with small WIS. What a disaster for a warrior! And several turns later it swapped it back again. Thanks, RNG!

[Bogatyr]

If you stand on a corner, you'd be in LOS even if you step around it. You'd have to make two steps, two actions.

That's a warrior talking. Mages (at least mine) *always* do serious battles from a distance. And unless I'm lazy, make a mistake, or the monster is unable to cause more than about 1/4 damage in a single turn, I'm always a single step away from exiting LoS. Unless we're talking popcorn, in which case I'll wade into a crowd. Or the monster has no stunning attacks, in which case create doors is the perfect "couple of turns to heal" escape.

[Bowman]

Of course, full strength mage will do other things like banish all non-ESP-detecting annoying monsters upon entering any level (g, Q, v), and I usually get rid of all Z because I frickin hate hounds.

Unless you get a freakishly early Kelek's, I don't see any reason why a mage wouldn't pretty much automatically banish e/g/M/Q/v/Z at the start of any level. Just got to keep aware of your health to make sure the backlash doesn't kill you .

I am re-analyzing the game again. Both warrior attempts ended at level 80, in both games i had very little problems and no close calls up to that level. It seems to me DL80 is the pivot point for warrior. I have to change play style and start thinking ahead. Really, up to DL80 there were no need to care about LoS. Really, not at all.

My warrior experiences usually pivot around finding rods of detection and wands/rods of teleport other. ESP helps, too, but Q's, v's, and the top four or so g's sneak past both that and detect evil. Then again, I love raiding vaults, and I definitely tend to take more chances with them than I ought to.

[Bogatyr]

Actually, I've been having some fun with high-end Q's and s's (drujs) in this incarnation of @ (gnome mage). stationary monsters are ridiculously easy to clone/farm for fast experience gains. It does get boring after gaining a few levels, but it's a fun mini-game phase to go through.

[Bimbul]

Someone mentioned earlier that all their Rangers die.

Now I've got a ranger at DL34 and CL27 and I must agree - it's shit.
Two DLs ago I got into a fight with one of Mim's sons and only survived by using all my potion reserves and much toe to toe fighting with nearly all my kit disenchanted to nowt. This level I only beat Beorn by teleporting (not phase door - teleport) away whenever I was on the verge of death and recovering somewhere - *Eventually* I wore him down. Killed an ancient green dragon on that lvl but damn that was close too.

The fight with Khim (i think it was him) got me a magical shield or something for whole 256 XP.

Now with just about any other character I could whop all of those creatures rather easily - even priest or mage - by now.

He's not even any good at shooting FFS. (Fire - seeker arrow with long bow of extra might - he ignores the attack).

I've equipped two rings of damage as he can't melee effectively otherwise- has only 31 SP (magic missile is surprisingly good certainly better than shooting but only 31 SP) - and is shit at missile weapons too.

Now it just gave me a blessed warhammer with ESP so I feel duty bound to use it -even thought it's otherwise shit. I carry narthanc too for some extra umph if necessary.

But, it's a generally crap character as far as I can tell. Not really good at anything.

Still it's still alive so I must be doing something right I suppose.

[Bimbul]

Ah, don't know where I got the idea I possessed a longbow of extra might - it's still using the shortbow he started with - that would kind of explain the shit shooting I suppsoe.

[Derakon]

Ah, don't know where I got the idea I possessed a longbow of extra might - it's still using the shortbow he started with - that would kind of explain the shit shooting I suppsoe.

Yeah, I was gonna say -- at your level you should get two shots/round. Using a +10,+10 longbow and basic +0,+0 1d4 arrows, you should deal (10 + 1d4) * 3 ~= 37.5 damage per shot or 75 damage per turn. Every +1 to-dam on your launcher or ammo is effectively +3 to-dam because of the multiplier. How does that compare to your melee?

[Bimbul]

Yeah, I was gonna say -- at your level you should get two shots/round. Using a +10,+10 longbow and basic +0,+0 1d4 arrows, you should deal (10 + 1d4) * 3 ~= 37.5 damage per shot or 75 damage per turn. Every +1 to-dam on your launcher or ammo is effectively +3 to-dam because of the multiplier. How does that compare to your melee?

Well that would be comparable (with rings of damage) had I possession of such a missile launcher. I'm pretty sure I've dropped a few 'magical bows along the way. Good job I at least spotted this now.
That's the trouble with starting new games off to soon - you get used to the weaponry of your last game and forget you don't have it any more.

Nimthanc (for 'tis that in fact) can do 67 damage or so on most creature, 87 on non-cold resistants - but - it misses a good proportion of times and I have 18/30 DEX

[Bimbul]

I should say I've got damn good gear otherwise so far - the cloaks colannon and colluin, nimthanc, the hard leather armour of himring, some +4 speed sandals, gauntlets of free action and a helm of seeing so it's not all bad. Just wish I could whop the baddies without putting forth all my survival skills.

[Bimbul]

Aha, I have a crossbow of extra might in my home. WTF am I doing with that shortbow still *facepalm*

I think I'll go and have a lie down somewhere.

[edit] Shooting seems fine now - hahahahaha *facepalm*

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Just remember that the ranger "extra shot" (1 at Cl 20 and another at Cl 40) only applies to "bows" not "crossbows". While that crossbow might outperform anything right now, keep your eyes open for the better bows. In the end-game, a ranger with a great bow (Belthronding or some of the best Lothlorien bows) and great ammunition (Holy Might Arrows) can put out more damage per round than any other class.

[jrodman]

Just remember that the ranger "extra shot" (1 at Cl 20 and another at Cl 40) only applies to "bows" not "crossbows". While that crossbow might outperform anything right now, keep your eyes open for the better bows. In the end-game, a ranger with a great bow (Belthronding or some of the best Lothlorien bows) and great ammunition (Holy Might Arrows) can put out more damage per round than any other class.

Wow, my 4.0.3 vanilla ranger who just switched to a crossbow thanks you. I *thought* i noticed I wasn't getting as many shots in per enemy action but I decided it was hallucinations, or similar. Back to the longbow of might it is. I switched for the higher base damage on the bolts, but that isn't worth it if it's down a shot.

I think I learned the classes by careful reading of the help files back in 2.x days.