How fast do I actually need to be

[Bimbul]

Starting to approach the endgame for the very first time and am now getting the, I guess, inevitable decision making process on what to actually use as I'm starting to get an embarrassment of riches.

I just found Nenya the ring of adamant (in a room I shouldn't really have touched with a bargepole - full of horrid hounds, glad I did) and it has certain (very) useful properties, but... it takes me down to speed +21 - having been previously +34, I'm not liking that too much. My boots of Thror also took the speed down, as did my current weapons of choice (alternate Great Axe of Eonwe or the Trident of Wrath).

I know I've posted elsewhere that I want to learn myself and don't want out and out spoilers but I guess a bit of advice wouldn't go amiss.

I can wear kit that gets it back up a bit but then also there's a penalty in other areas. Extra constitution things don't boost my HP any more..

So I guess the question returns to, when does extra speed become superfluous...?

Suppose it's kind of a spoiler but wth.

[Bimbul]

I suppose I can always cast haste self incidentally since the character is a rogue and has arcane magic. Though I don't really use that spellbook much so ditched it a while back.

[Carnivean]

The minimum recommended speed for combating Morgoth is +30. Morgoth is +30 and you do not want him to get a chance to double cast manastorm at you. +21 +10 from haste or !speed is sufficient, though you need to be careful with refreshing that.

Speed suffers diminishing returns after +20, and is capped around +70. You'll get very little benefit being more than +40.

[Bimbul]

Thanks - when I was cogitating this question earlier I was wondering about Morgoth and Sauron being about +30. Great Wyrms seem likely to be at least +20 from my combat with them so I suspected the big two would be even faster.

OK, well I'm still at DL 88 - plenty of stuff to be found yet I guess. And I've just noticed with Nenya I can ditch my cloak of the Magi which grants telepathy. I have an artifact cloak upstairs which has speed as one attribute I think...

Thanks again.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Thanks - when I was cogitating this question earlier I was wondering about Morgoth and Sauron being about +30. Great Wyrms seem likely to be at least +20 from my combat with them so I suspected the big two would be even faster.

OK, well I'm still at DL 88 - plenty of stuff to be found yet I guess. And I've just noticed with Nenya I can ditch my cloak of the Magi which grants telepathy. I have an artifact cloak upstairs which has speed as one attribute I think...

Thanks again.

Sauron is +20, Morgoth is +30. If you can match those speeds when hasted, then you are good to go as far as speed is concerned. I.e., you need a minimum of +10 and +20 permanent speed, respectively, and then quaff a speed potion, cast a haste spell, etc. As mentioned, keep on top of the speed buff. Slowing down in combat with the Bosses can spell for a bad day.

[yyt16384]

Great Wyrms seem likely to be at least +20 from my combat with them so I suspected the big two would be even faster.

I think all non-unique Ds are at +10 speed.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

In monster descriptions, "quickly" is +10 speed, "very quickly" is +20 speed, and "incredibly quickly" is +30 speed.

[Bimbul]

Thanks again - this game has become a bit boring all of a sudden - got to CL50 and suddenly I find it's the maximum. Have killed Ancalagon the Black, Ungoliant and Glaurung - only major uniques left now can't be arsed with (except maybe the Witch King if I see him again and Gothmog just for personal kudos) as they're all summoners of other big nasties and there's no benefit anymore to killing them.

So now I'm just after kit that will give me all resistances when worn together and stuff for the final fights - !life, !*healing* (they just get attritioned by the big uniqes, great balance drakes, pit fiends etc otherwise) and - well I dunno, wands of annihalation, scrolls of mass banishment etc. Just a collecting exercise now until the final fight.

Have learned much this game - now i truly understand the diving quickly thing and what to fight and what not to fight.

[Monkey Face]

There is one advantage to killing as many uniques as possible. Morgoth can cast a spell to summon uniques. Once they've been summoned, they can't be resummoned unless they get destructed. But if you leave too many, he can summon one batch and then if you teleport away, he can summon another batch when he finds you again. So you pretty much want to get the number down so they can all be summoned at once.

[Bimbul]

Yeah I guessed that - Morgoth is likely to be able to do everything I expect - have killed 76 out of 93 known which is a pretty high proportion - some of them are a nightmare though - the Qulythug unique, the Lich Lord chappy etc. - I've despatched Gothmog and Maeglin now and am down to lvl 96 but I'm tiring of it now - only trouble is, down to 1 !life after gothmog - had Carcharoth too on that level but I need more ! to keep me alive - I think I probably do want to remove as many as possible but the final battles are looming and I'm itchy for it.

Whatever happens now I shall count this game as a massive success - given how hard some of these uniques are to kill (and some non-uniques - great balance drakes are no picnic, neither are some undead things like Nightwalkers) I have no expectations of actually getting a win yet

[Zikke]

I find the Emperor Q is one of the easiest uniques to kill if you don't just run up to him. You can target a space next to him to kill him with AoEs from out of sight, or I have noticed sometimes if I do run up to melee him, he never summons anything but just takes 5-10 turns of bashing before dying. Bug?

[kandrc]

I find the Emperor Q is one of the easiest uniques to kill if you don't just run up to him. You can target a space next to him to kill him with AoEs from out of sight, or I have noticed sometimes if I do run up to melee him, he never summons anything but just takes 5-10 turns of bashing before dying. Bug?

I've wielded my Sonic Screwdriver and taunted him in wizmode. Eventually, he stops summoning. In a normal game, I don't think I'd be likely to survive that long, but I've long suspected there's some sort of summoning bug.

[Bimbul]

AoEs?

Sorry, can't work that one out.

TLE fail (by me)

When I've encountered him in this game it's never been alone - in fact I think he's been summoned by another unique, along with the great Lich wizard, various greater balrogs and a few greater Wyrms to boot. Maybe I've been unlucky.

[Nick]

AoEs?

Area of Effect - so ball spells.

[Bimbul]

Area of Effect - so ball spells.

Thanks, haven't really got any, am a rogue so aside from the one from magic for beginners - I have mass confusion spell and the sound one - but I don't bother with that spellbook as I've never used it - maybe I should.

Personalyl I also rarely use wands as they're of limited effect and just help the opposition get better half the time. Plus I find there's more important stuff to carry personally. Suppose I could have had a stack of 50 rods of lightning bolts by now mind.

I'm collecting a few for the final battles though - powerful ones - drain life and annihalation (though I'm yet to be convinced the latter are all that good)