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I like the randomized spellbooks idea.
Scrolls or spells inscribed on dungeon features are good ideas too.
Scrolls or spells inscribed on dungeon features are good ideas too.
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This. I like this idea very much, and it sorts the town scumming concern from a few posts ago - the only thing you can buy are blank books, and give a book a limited number of slots for spells (say 8 spells in a book). That way, you don't lose the spells in the game, people can pick and choose what they want to have, and take up as many book slots as they want - optimising your set comes into play then as well, as some people will want to keep down to say, 3 books, even in the endgame.
Oh, and Matt's list of spells was very interesting. I've won with a ranger and died against Morgoth as a mage, and my ranger build was similar-ish, but my mage build was very different (yes answers in this case for stuff that I'd actually use in practice):
[hide]Book 1: Magic for Beginners
a) Magic Missile - yes
b) Detect Monsters - yes
c) Phase Door - yes
d) Light Area - yes
e) Treasure/object Detection - n/a
f) Cure Light Wounds - yes
g) Find Hidden Traps/Doors - yes
h) Stinking Cloud - yes
Book 2: Conjurings and Tricks
a) Confuse Monster - no
b) Lightning Bolt - yes
c) Trap/Door Destruction - yes
d) Cure Poison - yes
e) Sleep Monster - no
f) Teleport Self - yes
g) Spear of Light - no
h) Frost Bolt - yes
i) Wonder - yes
Book 3: Incantations and Illusions
a) Satisfy Hunger - yes
b) Lesser Recharging - yes
c) Turn Stone to Mud - yes
d) Fire Bolt - yes
e) Polymorph Other - no
f) Identify - yes
g) Reveal Monster - no
h) Acid Bolt - yes
i) Slow Monster - no
Book 4: Sorcery and Evocations
a) Frost Ball - yes
b) Teleport Other - yes
c) Haste Self - yes
d) Mass Sleep - no
e) Fire Ball - yes
f) Detect treasure (or whatever it's called) - N/A
Book 5: Resistances of Scarabtarices
a) Resist Cold - yes
b) Resist Fire - yes
c) Resist Poison - yes
d) Resistance - yes
e) Shield - yes
Book 6: Raal's Tome of Destruction
(squelched without using)
a) Shock Wave - no
b) Explosion - no
c) Cloudkill - no
d) Acid Ball - yes
e) Ice Storm - yes
f) Meteor Swarm - yes
g) Rift - no
Book 7: Mordenkainen's Escapes
a) Door Creation - no
b) Stair Creation - yes
c) Teleport Level - yes
d) Word of Recall - yes
e) Rune of Protection - yes
Book 8: Tenser's Transformations
a) Heroism - no
b) Berserker - no
c) Enchant Armor - yes
d) Enchant Weapon - yes
e) Greater Recharging - yes
f) Elemental Brand - no
Book 9: Kelek's Grimoire of Power
a) Earthquake - no
b) Bedlam - no
c) Rend Soul - no
d) Banishment - yes
e) Word of Destruction - yes
f) Mass Banishment - yes
g) Chaos Strike - yes
h) Mana Storm - yes[/hide]
Essentially I found spamming offensive ball spells (and bolts earlier on) was not only viable, but very useful. Even stinking cloud was a great louse remover in the earlier days.
What I'd like more than anything is to build my spell repertoire to match my playstyle. I'm all for a variety of different spells that perform similar functions (i.e. here's an unresistable bolt spell that's kind of like that one, but a bit higher mana cost and a bit more damage), as long as I then get to have fun kitting out my spells the way I'd like.
There's plenty of discussion that could be available on things like different realms of magic, even to the extend that a character could gain proficiency with one realm through usage (or have increased affinity to one at the expense of another) - my honest feeling though is that this is an incredible amount of work to keep different realms interesting, and at the same time maintain the practical balance between them. Having played a few variants with different realms, I found similar issues to the V system with some spells being useful and others not so much, and I also found a lack of overall balance (i.e. realm A great in the early game, not so much in the endgame, realm B vice-versa)Comment
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Copying spells into blank books is an idea that's present in at least one variant but I can't recall which one. That said, it's a great idea.Comment
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Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was writing off the idea due to insurmountable difficulties ... just that maintaining both flavour and balance and some unique identity to each realm is a very non-trivial task.
I'd be more than happy to see it, but I don't envy the person trying to build it well
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Don't worry, Nick has thrown caution to the wind and submitted that flavour is in, and balance is out, and that he is open to the challenge of trying to build anything in Angband. In fact, as long as a plurality of forum commenters like something, he's happy to build whatever we can come up with.Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was writing off the idea due to insurmountable difficulties ... just that maintaining both flavour and balance and some unique identity to each realm is a very non-trivial task.
I'd be more than happy to see it, but I don't envy the person trying to build it wellComment
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I wouldn't quite say balance is out, but I'm certainly happy for stuff to be broken before it gets fixed properly.
While we're at it, here's a proposed set of Mage spells along the lines I was suggesting earlier - this is the uncontroversial caster class, with the most spells
Note that mana cost and level of learning haven't been specified yet, so order within books is likely wrong.Code:Town Book 1 Detect Monsters (which monsters to be determined) Phase Door Sense Objects Detect Doors/Stairs Recharge Teleport Other Town Book 2 Magic Missile Wonder Lightning Bolt Frost Bolt Fire Bolt Acid Bolt Fire Ball Dungeon Book 1 Resist Cold Resist Fire Resistance Shield Rune of Protection (possibly only effective against some monsters) Dungeon Book 2 Door Creation Stair Creation Teleport Level Directed Teleport (targeted, but random within 10 grids of target) Banishment Mass Banishment Dungeon Book 3 Shock Wave Explosion Mana Bolt Thrust Away (force bolt, with push back) Mana Storm
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.Comment
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A couple things.I wouldn't quite say balance is out, but I'm certainly happy for stuff to be broken before it gets fixed properly.
While we're at it, here's a proposed set of Mage spells along the lines I was suggesting earlier - this is the uncontroversial caster class, with the most spells
Note that mana cost and level of learning haven't been specified yet, so order within books is likely wrong.Code:Town Book 1 Detect Monsters (which monsters to be determined) Phase Door Sense Objects Detect Doors/Stairs Recharge Teleport Other Town Book 2 Magic Missile Wonder Lightning Bolt Frost Bolt Fire Bolt Acid Bolt Fire Ball Dungeon Book 1 Resist Cold Resist Fire Resistance Shield Rune of Protection (possibly only effective against some monsters) Dungeon Book 2 Door Creation Stair Creation Teleport Level Directed Teleport (targeted, but random within 10 grids of target) Banishment Mass Banishment Dungeon Book 3 Shock Wave Explosion Mana Bolt Thrust Away (force bolt, with push back) Mana Storm
Stinking cloud is missing. That's needed for early game crowd control. This can "become" cloud kill in the late game without too much issue, just like OoD gets upgraded at level 30. You do want an AOE spell that doesn't destroy items.
Teleport self should probably be in book 1. Teleport other should be in a later book. Magic missile should be in book 1. Unless mage gets 2 books to start. They need MM to be able to survive the early game without it being dreadfully boring.
Haste self should appear somewhere in the arcane book.
Word of Destruction is missing, although I could see getting behind only allowing this on items. It's a very powerful escape spell.
Thrust away should just be Rift. It's already a very interesting spell and one that I like playing with. No need to change that one.
Resist cold and fire could just be one spell like in Priest. You could also consider a Resist acid and elec, and a resist poison. Cold and Fire are in some sense the least important double resists to have spells for because they have items that give temp resist.
I would like to see status effect spells coming back in the game, but just more powerful. Sleep monster is a great candidate for a spell. It just needs to be much more effective. That should be the go-to spell in the early game for avoiding monsters.Comment
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No meteor swarm? That is one of my favorites.My first winner: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=10138Comment
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I hate that it destroys items that drop after the first meteor goes off, but maybe that's the penalty for using it. It should probably find a place though, since it is distinctive and probably has niche uses.
What I would hope is that first paring down the spell list can then allow us to add some spells with different effects.Comment
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Maybe a low-level rune of protection that would seal doors (assuming doors could be made more relevant). Thematic and useful at low levels.
Would also love to see monsters cast these too.Comment
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Can we make a Rune of Protection spell whose strength depends on the skill of the caster? So you could be a level-10 mage making use of Rune of Protection against a pack of Cave Orcs and they'd have the kind of odds of breaking the rune that make using the spell useful without being a slam-dunk.
A monster spell that renders them immune to melee until you break their rune or lure them off it sounds like a pain in the ass. Great idea.Comment
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