Stupid Angband Questions

[Sphara]

Given I'm currently going through a rework of classes, what do people think about having two arcane classes, one with powerful spells and one which primarily uses devices, and gets spells to enhance that?

I'm playing the new blackguard class online and it is so strong that I haven't had any reason to cast the spells. I thought I'd try to spam the spells later when I'd get my INT up but now I have 9 attacks so the experiment is sorta ruined since I really cannot tell anymore if they make any difference. Shield bash during the early game let me melee Nar, every orc boss, umbar bros etc unhasted and barely taking any damage after the stun kicked in. Got fairly good Westernesse weapon but still, it felt way too strong.

I would def try device class. Especially because i tend to overlook other devices besides TO/Speed/Tele. Would probably need a launcher nerf to that class. Something like reduced distance/dmg.

[Gwarl]

I think devices are a dungeon constant rather than a class specialty. I don't like the idea of closing off parts of the game to non-specialists.

[Voovus]

Given I'm currently going through a rework of classes, what do people think about having two arcane classes, one with powerful spells and one which primarily uses devices, and gets spells to enhance that?

Sounds good. I'd be interested in both.

I'm assuming that the spell-oriented class should be able to live happily device-free. This class would probably then need some other hoops to jump through, such as a massive str penalty (so that our magicians are finally forced to start wearing robes), or something else.

[gglibertine]

I think right now it's hard to find a good use for most of the spells in Raals, or damage spells in general. Part of this is due to the nonlinear nature of SP. When you find Raals you don't have enough mana to cast the spells regularly and reliably. By the time you have the SP, those spells are outclassed by other options.

If you're playing a rogue, Raal's is nearly useless. By the time you have enough mana to use the two available spells reliably they're too underpowered to be worth bothering with.

I also find Scarabtices annoying because every time I've ever found it I already have the four basic resistances anyway (getting those is one of my first goals in the game) so they're not even worth learning. The only ones I ever bother with in that book are Resistance and Shield. I think Scarabtices should have more useful single resists, like Nexus and Poison.

[Philip]

Temporary resistance actually stacks with permanent resistance, though admittedly, even then, you usually want to cast Resistance rather than the single temp resist.

[Nick]

I think devices are a dungeon constant rather than a class specialty. I don't like the idea of closing off parts of the game to non-specialists.

I'm not thinking of anything being closed off. Other classes would still be able to use devices, but the device class would get the boosts mages currently get, the recharging mages currently get (while mages would keep the new turn-charges-into-mana) and some extra device-related spells.

[Pete Mack]

@sphara--sounds like a problem with randarts as much as with blackguard.

[Pete Mack]

@gglibertine-
Raal's isn't worth carrying as a Ranger, either. Kelek's is worth carrying for a ranger: that is one of the three b8g avantages: shots, *destruction*, and Glyph of Warding.

[Gwarl]

I'm not thinking of anything being closed off. Other classes would still be able to use devices, but the device class would get the boosts mages currently get, the recharging mages currently get (while mages would keep the new turn-charges-into-mana) and some extra device-related spells.

Yeah so you're taking that stuff away from mages, making people choose beforehand whether they want the wands bonus and recharge ability of the mage or the spellcasting versatility, rather than allowing both.

[Derakon]

Given I'm currently going through a rework of classes, what do people think about having two arcane classes, one with powerful spells and one which primarily uses devices, and gets spells to enhance that?

I'm a bit leery of making a class that is primarily dependent on items that a) are not necessarily in ready supply, and b) can easily be destroyed by enemies. In other words, I'm not certain that magic devices should be a primary tool of any class; they just should be good enough that many classes consider them a useful supplement / first strike.

If you want to remove magic devices from the mage (i.e. worsen mage device skill, lose the recharging spell(s)), then I agree with fizzix that they should be given to the rogue instead. But I'm not convinced that the status quo needs tinkering with.

[Ighalli]

Given I'm currently going through a rework of classes, what do people think about having two arcane classes, one with powerful spells and one which primarily uses devices, and gets spells to enhance that?

The new rogue already has this. The rework of recharging makes it so reliable, cheap, and fast to charge items that I've maybe lost 2 items to recharging in the entire play through up to 5000', and I was using them fairly extensively. I think that people complaining about the firepower of the new mage are not understanding just how insanely OP recharging is right now (even with the bugfix which makes it *possible* to fail).

Edit: Although come to think of it, the bug makes you always get only 3 charges per casting, so maybe people felt it was underwhelming and gave up on it.

[Moving Pictures]

Why ....

.... is there no booze in the dungeon?

I pondered playing Perry, the portly, perma-pickled priest, and trying to do a humorous diary type writeup but realized I've never seen any liquor apart from the town.

Given the cesspool of vice, violence and mayhem that is Angband, I find it hard to think the dungeon is dry.

And I mean, those frost giants and orcs, all jammed together in room, like, man, at some point you know they wanna party. They'd be brewing their own, using slime mold juice, if nothing else.

Surely Morgoth isn't a prohibitionist?

[Pete Mack]

Offish liquor exists in certain variants.

[Drokk]

Hey! So.

I've just picked up the game for the first time in a while; i've never been that amazing of a player but I've ascended in DCSS and played roguelikes for years so I know basic strategy.

Playing a human warrior for fun, I've been diving fairly steadily. I'm level 30 on DL 40.

I feel like a switch got flicked on level 38 which was the dungeon's collective "fuck this guy up" switch.

Unsure what I should be doing differently; I have almost five blows with an artifact rapier which out damages every other artifact I've found so far, so it can't be my damage. Got a lamellar armor of resistance, and some other good stuff.

I guess this is the stage of the game where I need to be running from things more consistently, but I feel like the largest issue I'm having is my current equipment lacking certain resistances (electricity/nexus being the two main ones). The deeper I dive the better the odds become of better loot, so rather than climbing back up or staying at the same place I'm scurrying around looking for armor (or uniques that I can plausibly kill) and taking stairs whenever I see them.

Is that what a good early midgame strategy is? The dungeon became a very scary place very quickly.

[Derakon]

You're at the point where warriors are probably at their comparative weakest. The game is starting to generate nastier monsters that you don't have the ability to detect with anything better than your eyes, so you'll have a tendency to blunder into threats you didn't know were there.

Fortunately, teleportation is still a pretty reliable escape at this point in the game, so the #1 recommendation is to carry a few Staves of Teleport and use them whenever you encounter something that you don't think you can safely deal with. Then get off the level.

You're going to want to get electricity resistance fairly soon, since the damage cap on it (like the other "basic four" elements, acid/fire/cold) is 1600 unresisted and there are some enemies that can sling around large amounts of electrical damage. Nexus is less of an issue damage-wise, it's the side-effects there that you need to watch out for. But I'd just try to avoid nexus hounds, and kill nexus vortices with a bow before they can do anything. There's few other sources of nexus damage in the game.

If you want more specific advice, post a character dump on the ladder (Ladder tab at the top of the page; make a dump from the 'C' screen).