Angband 3.5.0 released!

[Malak Darkhunter]

Well, strong characters would.

If I'm reading this correctly we're just beginning to set out on the path of removing locked doors in much the same way we removed cursed items, cause turning it into an engaging element that actually works and adds something to the game would be hard(er).

Apparently, I'm being a bit of a bitch today.

For the record I have always enjoyed cursed items, especially cursed weapons of morgul, yet another fear element to the game, another way to get killed by being uncareful.

[Malak Darkhunter]

As far as wands, rods, etc. are concerned, the main thing to care about is IMO how much damage they deal, not how hard they are to activate. It's not fun if your warrior needs to take 5 attempts every time they want to zap their Rod of Trap Detection or whatever. I can see the argument that they shouldn't be able to make effective use of combat wands, but I don't know of anyone doing that anyway, since they don't get the big damage multipliers from wands that e.g. a mage does.

The entire point of wands, rods, and staves is to package up magic effects in a way such that non-magicians can use them. Making them impossibly difficult to activate misses the point IMO.

That said, you might consider scaling damage with device skill more aggressively (and possibly lowering the base damage to compensate).

As for locked doors, if you make them too hard to open then the player will just bash them down or tunnel through them. I don't see much point in tweaking this. I guess there's some minor effect in that bashed/tunneled doors break and can't be closed again, but you rarely need to close doors anyway.

I was able to take out 2 early game Uniques ( Wormtounge and Smeagol) with just 1 wand of wonder, never failed an activation, never got any gold stolen, never meleed them the first time...wands of wonder are hugely overpowered for the level depth that they first become availiable but that is just my opinion. This is basically always my strategy for those 2, better than using bows...phase door/potions of speed/wand of wonder...gets them everytime.
Early game warrios "should" expereince some aggravation attempting to use those devices..that's the price you pay for being a melee based character.

Now about the doors and picking locks, being able to access certain parts of the dungeon to hunt for special items and treasure adds a real game play percpective to the game, as well as fleeing from monsters but can't because you can't get past that stubborn locked door! But this is my game play perspective. for the unlucky warrior to suddenly run into a dead end while fleeing adds that level of excitement and fear to the game, but the crafty rogue might still find a way out.....

[Magnate]

Hey, I'd be all for locked doors making a meaningful difference. And if players did want to close doors at all often then some characters being unable to pick locks effectively would be meaningful. But as it stands, I don't think that there's much point in making it horribly difficult for some characters to pick locks. At the same time, I don't think that it's a problem that locked doors exist, since it can occasionally be important that the player is unable to open a door in a timely fashion (e.g. when fleeing from monsters).

Basically I'm saying I advocate leaving things as-is rather than tinkering with them, in the absence of suggestions that would make more meaningful differences. I would hope that this meets with your approval...?

I really quite liked spiking doors, myself. There were seven levels of locks, once upon a time.

[Derakon]

Hey, I'd be all for locked doors making a meaningful difference. And if players did want to close doors at all often then some characters being unable to pick locks effectively would be meaningful. But as it stands, I don't think that there's much point in making it horribly difficult for some characters to pick locks. At the same time, I don't think that it's a problem that locked doors exist, since it can occasionally be important that the player is unable to open a door in a timely fashion (e.g. when fleeing from monsters).

Basically I'm saying I advocate leaving things as-is rather than tinkering with them, in the absence of suggestions that would make more meaningful differences. I would hope that this meets with your approval...?

[Nick]

If I'm reading this correctly we're just beginning to set out on the path of removing locked doors in much the same way we removed cursed items, cause turning it into an engaging element that actually works and adds something to the game would be hard(er).

Apparently, I'm being a bit of a bitch today.

On the contrary, I think you've been quite restrained. I was expecting you to say that a slight change to locked doors would ruin the game and make fire and brimstone rain from the skies.

[buzzkill]

As for locked doors, if you make them too hard to open then the player will just bash them down or tunnel through them. I don't see much point in tweaking this. I guess there's some minor effect in that bashed/tunneled doors break and can't be closed again, but you rarely need to close doors anyway.

Well, strong characters would.

If I'm reading this correctly we're just beginning to set out on the path of removing locked doors in much the same way we removed cursed items, cause turning it into an engaging element that actually works and adds something to the game would be hard(er).

Apparently, I'm being a bit of a bitch today.

[Derakon]

As far as wands, rods, etc. are concerned, the main thing to care about is IMO how much damage they deal, not how hard they are to activate. It's not fun if your warrior needs to take 5 attempts every time they want to zap their Rod of Trap Detection or whatever. I can see the argument that they shouldn't be able to make effective use of combat wands, but I don't know of anyone doing that anyway, since they don't get the big damage multipliers from wands that e.g. a mage does.

The entire point of wands, rods, and staves is to package up magic effects in a way such that non-magicians can use them. Making them impossibly difficult to activate misses the point IMO.

That said, you might consider scaling damage with device skill more aggressively (and possibly lowering the base damage to compensate).

As for locked doors, if you make them too hard to open then the player will just bash them down or tunnel through them. I don't see much point in tweaking this. I guess there's some minor effect in that bashed/tunneled doors break and can't be closed again, but you rarely need to close doors anyway.

[Magnate]

Yeah, this part almost definitely needs balancing work. It's on the to-do list for sure.

What changed in 3.5? I thought that was ok in 3.4, or did I just miss the feedback?

[fizzix]

One thing I am noticing is that my Half-Troll is shooting wands of wonder,confuse,sleep, like a pro..you would think he would have some difficulty using these as he is a warrior, also picking locks on doors like a pro as well..these kind of skills should be more difficulty to that particular race/type combo, so in a way it still feels easy.

Yeah, this part almost definitely needs balancing work. It's on the to-do list for sure.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Angband 3.5 best release yet, Kudo's to all the development team!

all I can say is wow, very fun, early levels are no longer boring, there is actaul in depth play that makes you think and strategize, hidden dangers, ran into a zoo at level 5, with Killer beetles, Scorpions, and stegocentipedes! was amazed, in earlier versions levels 1-20 where boring, with only the occasional unique to spice things up, but the danger of grouped monsters in rooms, and packs of adventures makes the game interesting now, defenitly an improvement. I am also pleased to see stores offereing better equipment, the town has become more interesting again. I am actually pretty excited to play this one.

One thing I am noticing is that my Half-Troll is shooting wands of wonder,confuse,sleep, like a pro..you would think he would have some difficulty using these as he is a warrior, also picking locks on doors like a pro as well..these kind of skills should be more difficulty to that particular race/type combo, so in a way it still feels easy.

But all in all I am truly enjoying this release, many thanks to all involved with developing this great game.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Ah right, I remember you reporting this last time around. I'm sorry but I don't have the time or expertise to try and track down bugs in a wine-run version.

Slapping in my windows 7 64bit hardrive, Angband fonts work much better, and more reliably, easier to configure and display screens don't have invisible writing.

Ubuntu 13.10 is kind of buggy anyways, some of the newer Xorg display drivers don't work as well with intel laptops with switchable graphics, 12.04 LTS is much more reliable a platform.

[Mondkalb]

They are? I thought when I probed the GCD (with Gandalf's staff), it said "...it can breathe shards", but with no damage numbers. I might have missed it, but I thought it never included breath-damage numbers. It does include melee attack numbers and other effects like "mana bolts (x)", but I thought breath attacks were always just described as breath, but with no damage numbers.

That's what I thought. Maybe they only show up when you really have lived through it.
What I was proposing: The probing spells/staffs/rods should reveal these numbers, regarding the discussion of accessibility for new players. Otherwise there are a lot of these gotcha moments that all the experinced players have had. ^^

[Derakon]

(Some of you from r.g.r.a might remember me as "the power mac guy"; I used to maintain the mac builds and wrote a mac-enhanced version in the 2.7 - 2.8 days with a GUI for options, and I wrote some of the early multi-window and term code.)

As someone who grew up with Macs, thank you.

[slinberg]

Well, of course I meant the full monster info that you get with probing. I was under the wrong impression that the numbers for breath attacks were missing, but actually, they are there.

They are? I thought when I probed the GCD (with Gandalf's staff), it said "...it can breathe shards", but with no damage numbers. I might have missed it, but I thought it never included breath-damage numbers. It does include melee attack numbers and other effects like "mana bolts (x)", but I thought breath attacks were always just described as breath, but with no damage numbers.

Appreciate all the advice - I've never tried a priest. I played a Ranger once a long, long time ago and savefile-cheated my way to Morgoth, clvl 50, but couldn't wear him down. I'm glad to hear that high-elf mages aren't considered easy... I think back in the Ben Harrison days, people thought it WAS one of the easier combos, but I had started out of frog-knows versions, and of course a lot has changed since then.

(Some of you from r.g.r.a might remember me as "the power mac guy"; I used to maintain the mac builds and wrote a mac-enhanced version in the 2.7 - 2.8 days with a GUI for options, and I wrote some of the early multi-window and term code.)

[Mondkalb]

It is included, but you need to know that the monster can breathe first. Come to think, you need to have killed the monster to know what its max HP are too. Oh well.

Well, of course I meant the full monster info that you get with probing. I was under the wrong impression that the numbers for breath attacks were missing, but actually, they are there.