What's next for Angband?

[TJS]

Just wondering what is happening with Angband development after the flurry of activity from a couple of years ago has died down.

Are any major changes planned or is it settling down these days? Have most of the developers gone over to Pyrel?

[Derakon]

Pyrel development is pretty dead right now too. I wouldn't say that most of the devs have switched to Pyrel; more that some of the more visible ones (Magnate and fizzix, most obviously) have done some work on it. But plenty of work is being done on Vanilla 3.5, getting it ready for release.

Personally, I'd like to start working on Pyrel again, but it keeps losing against all of the other projects I have going. It doesn't help that I code for my day job, so having the energy to do more coding when I get home isn't especially common. Still, it'll happen at some point.

[takkaria]

Just wondering what is happening with Angband development after the flurry of activity from a couple of years ago has died down.

Are any major changes planned or is it settling down these days? Have most of the developers gone over to Pyrel?

I'm going to work on the 3.5 series but it's all going to be behind the scenes work. I'm not interested in gameplay changes now. After 3.5.x, I'm going to move on to other projects. I'm also not moving over to Pyrel.

[TJS]

I'm going to work on the 3.5 series but it's all going to be behind the scenes work. I'm not interested in gameplay changes now. After 3.5.x, I'm going to move on to other projects. I'm also not moving over to Pyrel.

That's a shame as you've done loads of excellent stuff on the game over the years. Do you think you'll come back?

So who decides what happens with these days from a gameplay point of view?

[Derakon]

So who decides what happens with these days from a gameplay point of view?

If you have a change that you're willing to implement and that a decent chunk of the community thinks is a good idea, you have pretty good odds of getting it in.

[Magnate]

If you have a change that you're willing to implement and that a decent chunk of the community thinks is a good idea, you have pretty good odds of getting it in.

But that only answers the question at the tactical level, not the strategic.

I think Angband is essentially in the same place it was in pre-Ben, and then again pre-takkaria. It's waiting for someone with vision and energy - and a very very thick skin - to step up and say "this game is awesome, it contains dozens of person-years of loving effort, and I've decided it deserves a new lease of life - here is my version 4.0"

I'm still offering odds on buzzkill...

[dos350]

angband legit no rages~~~

[TJS]

But that only answers the question at the tactical level, not the strategic.

I think Angband is essentially in the same place it was in pre-Ben, and then again pre-takkaria. It's waiting for someone with vision and energy - and a very very thick skin - to step up and say "this game is awesome, it contains dozens of person-years of loving effort, and I've decided it deserves a new lease of life - here is my version 4.0"

I'm still offering odds on buzzkill...

Yep that's pretty much what I was getting at. Don't get me wrong I think it is good that anyone can come up with new ideas, just that I was wondering where the vision for the next overall direction of the game is coming from.

If you were to imagine the perfect maintainer then what exactly would they be like? Also it is interesting you say someone would need a thick skin, can you expand on that?

[Derakon]

If you were to imagine the perfect maintainer then what exactly would they be like? Also it is interesting you say someone would need a thick skin, can you expand on that?

If you're going to make changes that are anything more than minor tweaks (and sometimes, even then!) then at least 50% of the community is going to complain vociferously and demand you step down as maintainer since you're ruining Vanilla.

[TJS]

If you're going to make changes that are anything more than minor tweaks (and sometimes, even then!) then at least 50% of the community is going to complain vociferously and demand you step down as maintainer since you're ruining Vanilla.

Really? Damn. I always thought the Angband community was quite friendly.

Is that why none of the former dev team wants to take it on?

[Nick]

If you're going to make changes that are anything more than minor tweaks (and sometimes, even then!) then at least 50% of the community is going to complain vociferously and demand you step down as maintainer since you're ruining Vanilla.

Mind you, that 50% is by comment volume rather than by number

[Derakon]

Mind you, that 50% is by comment volume rather than by number

Well yes, this is a fair point.

TJS: it's partly that and partly not wanting to work on a crufty old codebase. Angband's codebase is in fantastic shape considering how old of a program it is, but that still translates to it being pretty unpleasant.

[Antoine]

My previously published list was that a V maintainer should be:

• well respected
• fundamentally conservative, but prepared to innovate in a cautious and measured way where it will do the most good
• unemployed, or prepared to devote far too much of his spare time to V
• familiar with modern software development practices
• well versed in the history of Angband
• able to work with (and motivate) subject matter specialists such as tileset artists
• thick-skinned.

I am not aware of a candidate having these properties.

A.

[TJS]

My previously published list was that a V maintainer should be:

• well respected
• fundamentally conservative, but prepared to innovate in a cautious and measured way where it will do the most good
• unemployed, or prepared to devote far too much of his spare time to V
• familiar with modern software development practices
• well versed in the history of Angband
• able to work with (and motivate) subject matter specialists such as tileset artists
• thick-skinned.

I am not aware of a candidate having these properties.

A.

Seems like a reasonable list.

The question is though what happens if no one ever satisfies those requirements?

Why conservative exactly? If some radical changes makes the game better is that not also something to aim for? After all the old versions are always still available.

[Philip]

Well, I think the idea is that he doesn't rush into massive projects, not without asking the community. Changes can be rolled back, sure, but unchecked development leads to the kind of number and feature bloat that commercially developed games tend to have.