More sensible group monster amounts

[Estie]

- giving master vampires an escort of lesser vampires

Good, but maybe make it only a small chace for escort ? Too much of this kind will completely change the monster composition; while thats not necessarily bad, maybe its a good idea to start slowly and see how it effects gameplay.

[fizzix]

Oh, I should add, having young and baby dragons with mature dragons I think is a nice touch. Basically the idea is that mature dragons are dragon moms and these are their kids. Ancient dragons and great wyrms are already beyond the age of kids. baby and young dragons found on lower levels basically got separated from their parent and then started fleeing upwards where it was less dangerous. At least that's my rationale.

Gameplay wise I like it because there's not a huge step between young and mature dragons like there is between mature and ancient.

[fizzix]

Thanks for going through it!

The code probably will catch the typos (it does a best match type of thing) but we should try to eliminate any typos we find anyway.

I'm loath to add new monsters (easterlings) but I"m ok with renaming hardened warriors as easterlings.

OoD uniques won't really show up. No escorts more than 5 levels OoD will ever show up, even in vaults. So you won't see that cave troll escort until you run into a deep group of orcs. It's really more of a flavor thing.

I wanted to add a dragon escort to enchantress, but as of now I don't have the capability of "only have one escort total" which is what we want. I think this is something that will have to wait until the next iteration (unless you have some clever ideas?). We could hack it in with a new flag (the friend, friends, escort and escorts flags are all gone now, so we could conceivably have a FRIEND_1 flag to indicate only the first monster should be accepted.)

I like all the other suggestions, although I think hounds accompanying trolls are not a problem.

[Antoine]

OK

I've started from the start and worked on. I thought I'd braindump at this point, and if my comments are useful, I'll do the rest of the list as well.

A.

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Typos

I saw some typos in the names of monsters on FRIENDS lines, will the code catch these?

OOD mobs

Probably avoid escorts that are badly OOD, it may be thematic but will annoy players.

I am dubious about giving Wargs to Golfimbul, and letting a cave troll escort black orcs (should it be the other way around?).

New friends

How about:
- giving Lorgan an escort of Easterling uniques and mumaks
- giving master vampires an escort of lesser vampires
- giving kobold archers and shamans a small escort of kobolds and small kobolds (they are supposed to be cowardly after all)
- giving dark elven lords (and perhaps driders) a small escort of assorted dark elves.

Descriptions should be honored

The quasit is described as a chaotic sorcerer's pet, the imp as a lawful evil sorcerer's pet. How about:
- giving a demonologist an escort of a quasit
- giving another caster an escort of an imp.

Also, how about:
- removing the Mage's current escorts (he can still appear as a friend of other evil characters) and instead giving him an escort of a quasit, imp, or even better a golem of one sort or another
- giving the Enchantress an escort of a mature dragon (as per her description)
- giving the basic Ogre an escort of orcs (as per its description).

Other ideas
- How about allowing some orc bosses to be accompanied by crows (not Crebain)?
- I suggest removing Hounds as escorts of trolls. I think it is sufficient for giants to be escorted by Hounds.
- I also suggest removing the juvenile dragons escorting mature dragons. Doesn't feel right to me.
- Could you get rid of one of the existing moulds and use its tile to denote a 'mould colony' mob that is found surrounded by an assortment of other moulds?
- Should (non-magic) mushroom patches routinely appear in groups?
- Should Bullroarer accompany Golfimbul? (A little tableau, if you will.)
- Could some generic human mobs (e.g. Swordsmen) be renamed as Easterlings? They could then accompany the Easterling uniques.
- Similarly, could some more powerful human mobs (e.g. Black Knight) be renamed as Black Numenoreans? They could then accompany the Black Numenorean uniques (up to Ar-Pharazon). No new tiles would be needed.

[fizzix]

I first implementation of the new friends approach is up, including a first run-through of the monster list. Suggestions are very welcome!

https://github.com/fizzix/angband/tree/friends

[Timo Pietilä]

It forces you to descend on a counter, but the time allowed is not even close to what would be considered diving in Sil.

Sounds like the one. Tried it, liked the UI, hated the game.

[Psi]

I tried some variant which forced you to dive, was that Sil? I hated it. A lot. Otherwise potentially good game ruined with that.

It forces you to descend on a counter, but the time allowed is not even close to what would be considered diving in Sil.

[Timo Pietilä]

Timo--have you tried Sil yet? It's got this and many other cool AI features. It is also a relatively short game. I think you will really like it.

I tried some variant which forced you to dive, was that Sil? I hated it. A lot. Otherwise potentially good game ruined with that.

[Pete Mack]

This remembers me, we might want to add some non-hasting "warning shout" that wakes up everything in LoS. That would make something like Crebain a bit less nasty, but still rather bad when you try to sneak around large group of nasties.

Timo--have you tried Sil yet? It's got this and many other cool AI features. It is also a relatively short game. I think you will really like it.

[Timo Pietilä]

Crebain escort is just mean.

This remembers me, we might want to add some non-hasting "warning shout" that wakes up everything in LoS. That would make something like Crebain a bit less nasty, but still rather bad when you try to sneak around large group of nasties.

[Timo Pietilä]

Crebain escort is just mean.

Beat me to it. I agree.

[Nick]

You guys are missing the big thing here - the introduction of Time and Gravity Giants

[Antoine]

I'm really not a fan of this kind of dictatorial "you should play this way" game design. Paladins are already encouraged to not try to stealth the game because they suck at stealth. Why should there be a further penalty?

If you want conducts, they should be voluntary and strictly aesthetic (e.g. noted on your tombstone), for people who want more challenge.

I know, I didnt expect the Paladin suggestion would fly

A.

[fizzix]

This seems OK. And Hell Hounds are a lot more dangerous than a Fire giant, anyway.

I was thinking a high chance of 1d3 fire hounds and a very small chance of 1d3 hellhounds.

[Derakon]

PS Paladins should lose xp for carrying out a sneak attack

I'm really not a fan of this kind of dictatorial "you should play this way" game design. Paladins are already encouraged to not try to stealth the game because they suck at stealth. Why should there be a further penalty?

If you want conducts, they should be voluntary and strictly aesthetic (e.g. noted on your tombstone), for people who want more challenge.