More sensible group monster amounts

[fizzix]

This would nerf Rogue characters in a bad way, unless Angband implements "sneak attacks"/"assassination"

yeah, there's a huge balance issue that needs to be resolved before shouting can be implemented. It's probably best not to do that yet. This does mean that the fire giant's dogs will go hunt down @ while it slumbers away, but I think that's ok, I actually think that's good for flavor.

[Pete Mack]

yeah, there's a huge balance issue that needs to be resolved before shouting can be implemented. It's probably best not to do that yet. This does mean that the fire giant's dogs will go hunt down @ while it slumbers away, but I think that's ok, I actually think that's good for flavor.

This seems OK. And Hell Hounds are a lot more dangerous than a Fire giant, anyway.

[Antoine]

yeah, there's a huge balance issue that needs to be resolved before shouting can be implemented. It's probably best not to do that yet. This does mean that the fire giant's dogs will go hunt down @ while it slumbers away, but I think that's ok, I actually think that's good for flavor.

Give him a pack of helhounds and wait for the screams

A.

[Derakon]

PS Paladins should lose xp for carrying out a sneak attack

I'm really not a fan of this kind of dictatorial "you should play this way" game design. Paladins are already encouraged to not try to stealth the game because they suck at stealth. Why should there be a further penalty?

If you want conducts, they should be voluntary and strictly aesthetic (e.g. noted on your tombstone), for people who want more challenge.

[fizzix]

This seems OK. And Hell Hounds are a lot more dangerous than a Fire giant, anyway.

I was thinking a high chance of 1d3 fire hounds and a very small chance of 1d3 hellhounds.

[Antoine]

I'm really not a fan of this kind of dictatorial "you should play this way" game design. Paladins are already encouraged to not try to stealth the game because they suck at stealth. Why should there be a further penalty?

If you want conducts, they should be voluntary and strictly aesthetic (e.g. noted on your tombstone), for people who want more challenge.

I know, I didnt expect the Paladin suggestion would fly

A.

[Nick]

You guys are missing the big thing here - the introduction of Time and Gravity Giants

[Timo Pietilä]

Crebain escort is just mean.

Beat me to it. I agree.

[Timo Pietilä]

Crebain escort is just mean.

This remembers me, we might want to add some non-hasting "warning shout" that wakes up everything in LoS. That would make something like Crebain a bit less nasty, but still rather bad when you try to sneak around large group of nasties.

[Pete Mack]

This remembers me, we might want to add some non-hasting "warning shout" that wakes up everything in LoS. That would make something like Crebain a bit less nasty, but still rather bad when you try to sneak around large group of nasties.

Timo--have you tried Sil yet? It's got this and many other cool AI features. It is also a relatively short game. I think you will really like it.

[Timo Pietilä]

Timo--have you tried Sil yet? It's got this and many other cool AI features. It is also a relatively short game. I think you will really like it.

I tried some variant which forced you to dive, was that Sil? I hated it. A lot. Otherwise potentially good game ruined with that.

[Psi]

I tried some variant which forced you to dive, was that Sil? I hated it. A lot. Otherwise potentially good game ruined with that.

It forces you to descend on a counter, but the time allowed is not even close to what would be considered diving in Sil.

[Timo Pietilä]

It forces you to descend on a counter, but the time allowed is not even close to what would be considered diving in Sil.

Sounds like the one. Tried it, liked the UI, hated the game.

[fizzix]

I first implementation of the new friends approach is up, including a first run-through of the monster list. Suggestions are very welcome!

https://github.com/fizzix/angband/tree/friends

[Antoine]

OK

I've started from the start and worked on. I thought I'd braindump at this point, and if my comments are useful, I'll do the rest of the list as well.

A.

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Typos

I saw some typos in the names of monsters on FRIENDS lines, will the code catch these?

OOD mobs

Probably avoid escorts that are badly OOD, it may be thematic but will annoy players.

I am dubious about giving Wargs to Golfimbul, and letting a cave troll escort black orcs (should it be the other way around?).

New friends

How about:
- giving Lorgan an escort of Easterling uniques and mumaks
- giving master vampires an escort of lesser vampires
- giving kobold archers and shamans a small escort of kobolds and small kobolds (they are supposed to be cowardly after all)
- giving dark elven lords (and perhaps driders) a small escort of assorted dark elves.

Descriptions should be honored

The quasit is described as a chaotic sorcerer's pet, the imp as a lawful evil sorcerer's pet. How about:
- giving a demonologist an escort of a quasit
- giving another caster an escort of an imp.

Also, how about:
- removing the Mage's current escorts (he can still appear as a friend of other evil characters) and instead giving him an escort of a quasit, imp, or even better a golem of one sort or another
- giving the Enchantress an escort of a mature dragon (as per her description)
- giving the basic Ogre an escort of orcs (as per its description).

Other ideas
- How about allowing some orc bosses to be accompanied by crows (not Crebain)?
- I suggest removing Hounds as escorts of trolls. I think it is sufficient for giants to be escorted by Hounds.
- I also suggest removing the juvenile dragons escorting mature dragons. Doesn't feel right to me.
- Could you get rid of one of the existing moulds and use its tile to denote a 'mould colony' mob that is found surrounded by an assortment of other moulds?
- Should (non-magic) mushroom patches routinely appear in groups?
- Should Bullroarer accompany Golfimbul? (A little tableau, if you will.)
- Could some generic human mobs (e.g. Swordsmen) be renamed as Easterlings? They could then accompany the Easterling uniques.
- Similarly, could some more powerful human mobs (e.g. Black Knight) be renamed as Black Numenoreans? They could then accompany the Black Numenorean uniques (up to Ar-Pharazon). No new tiles would be needed.