Lantern of Brightness > Phial of Galadriel?

[Mikko Lehtinen]

In a spirit of greater pedantry, I put it to you that Luthien was a half-elf (half-maia) and therefore could not be the "most powerful elf woman in history".

Besides, she save-scummed, so she doesn't get to enter the high score list.

[Oramin]

In a spirit of greater pedantry, I put it to you that Luthien was a half-elf (half-maia) and therefore could not be the "most powerful elf woman in history".

[Antoine]

What, you think that an elven glass phial holding the light of the one remaining silmaril, magically captured by the most powerful elf woman in history, should shine brighter than an oil-fuelled brass lantern? Why?

in a spirit of pedantry i put it to you that luthien was more powerful than galadriel

a.

[Derakon]

Well then, should such an iconic item typically be found pre DL10?

While it used to be the case that you could reasonably expect to find the Phial by 500', that hasn't been the case in years; these days I expect to be using normal light sources through 1000' at the very least, at which point the player character is probably the martial equal of any of the Fellowship save Gandalf.

[buzzkill]

What, you think that an elven glass phial holding the light of the one remaining silmaril, magically captured by the most powerful elf woman in history, should shine brighter than an oil-fuelled brass lantern? Why?

Well then, should such an iconic item typically be found pre DL10?

[Nick]

Bleh. You know my preferences, anyway. Personally I see this as a regression. But in the absence of more pushback from other people here, apparently I can't convince you that this change was bad.

What, you think that an elven glass phial holding the light of the one remaining silmaril, magically captured by the most powerful elf woman in history, should shine brighter than an oil-fuelled brass lantern? Why?

[Shockbolt]

dos350, what's your opinion in this?

[Philip]

I think that if you find the Phial it should be something of a no-brainer to use and this change just makes it boring. What you have now found is a Lantern(Everburning) that saves a packspace. I think you would be pretty dissapointed if you found a *thanc with a weak brand and normal daggers of *insert element here* had a strong one. There is no serious case for giving rings of power a +5 speed bonus but biffing the Phial.

[Derakon]

Bleh. You know my preferences, anyway. Personally I see this as a regression. But in the absence of more pushback from other people here, apparently I can't convince you that this change was bad.

[fizzix]

Let's leave the phial at radius 2 for 3.4.1 and we'll look for additional feedback on changing it back for 3.5. Sound fair?

[Derakon]

If people don't want that kind of interesting choice in the game, and are keen to keep it as broken as it's always been, by all means return the Phial to its sacred radius. Personally I'm proud to have been involved during the period when there were no sacred cows, and I think the game is more interesting for it.

My personal take on this is that light as implemented in Angband is not an interesting enough system to be worth forcing the player to make "difficult" choices over, and that the first artifact the player is likely to find ought to be clearly special. We have plenty of room to make interesting decisions elsewhere in the game where they're actually interesting (because the consequences are significant); there's no real harm in giving the player a gimme in this particular instance.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Cup of Drinking(activate to drink):

__Dibbs!__

[Mikko Lehtinen]

What do you do when a lantern that's half full of Oil Of Brightness (+1 radius) gets filled with Oil Of True Seeing (SI/rblind) - do you allow the oils to mix and the bonuses to stack? Or do you have the new oil's bonuses replace the old one's?

Sorry, no lanterns in Mist, only torches. They're easier to handle. (When I said "no extinguishing" I meant it -- taking off an equipped torch destroys it.)

Replacing seems the right move to me. It would work best if a single flask of ego oil filled the lantern to the maximum.

[Magnate]

I suggest removing the option to extinguish a torch or a lantern. If fuel ever starts to run low, the things that the player must do to save fuel are the very definition of tedium. Then you could also offer oils with magical properties -- these would really make the light clock interesting. (I know, I did a similar thing with torches in Mist.)

I don't think I realised that V allowed people to extinguish light sources. I know S does, as part of the shadow implementation. I'm not sure it matters too much - doing without light is very tough for non-shadow characters.

I do like your idea of magic oils - these are essentially temporary buffs for a lantern. What do you do when a lantern that's half full of Oil Of Brightness (+1 radius) gets filled with Oil Of True Seeing (SI/rblind) - do you allow the oils to mix and the bonuses to stack? Or do you have the new oil's bonuses replace the old one's?

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Nobody has really done a proper job of ego lights in V - other variants have a fantastic range of ego light types, which makes the light clock much more interesting.

Like torches in Halls of Mist.

I think I'd remove the NO_FUEL flag from all non-artifact lights, and introduce these other fuel variations instead. Then an artifact light source would always be an upgrade, even if you might have to trade off something you wanted (like SI or rBlind).

That sounds very good.

I suggest removing the option to extinguish a torch or a lantern. If fuel ever starts to run low, the things that the player must do to save fuel are the very definition of tedium. Then you could also offer oils with magical properties -- these would really make the light clock interesting. (I know, I did a similar thing with torches in Mist.)