A new direction for Angband

[Starhawk]

The Inspect text for lanterns still states that they refuel other lanterns (and I've used them as free oil refills in V for a long time).

I just found a second lantern, and the re[F]uel dialog doesn't recognize it as a source of fuel whether it's in my inventory or on the ground.

[Magnate]

I was always most comfortable with new ideas should first be proven "Angbandworthy" in variants first, then brought into Vanilla by popular demand.

This is exactly what v4 is for - it's essentially the devteam's variant, in which we can try out all sorts of ideas that won't be popular enough to include in V. It's absolutely not intended to damage or replace V in any way - quite the opposite. Hopefully those who want more cautious change will welcome it, because it means that the less cautious changes aren't being tested in 3.4 (or 3.5, or whatever).

@Geoff - regarding your request for player ghosts, many variants have them, and I believe there has been talk of re-introducing them into Vanilla.

Well, I know CunningGabe wanted to do this for 3.4, but he's been busy with RL recently. We're hoping he'll have some time this winter.

[Magnate]

The Inspect text for lanterns still states that they refuel other lanterns (and I've used them as free oil refills in V for a long time).

I just found a second lantern, and the re[F]uel dialog doesn't recognize it as a source of fuel whether it's in my inventory or on the ground.

I misunderstood takkaria then. I thought it was only torches that couldn't be refuelled any more. Seems odd to allow lanterns to be filled from flasks but not from other lanterns. I'm not sure that was the intention.

[Nick]

Angband is like the standard car that car companies produce in large volumes.
v4 is like the concept car that they produce for car shows.

I can't believe I just made a car analogy.

[takkaria]

Well, one can always play the older versions....

For me core angband has to have most of what it already has, but we should encourage..

-improved interface/portability/graphics options etc
-changes in the interests of balance (item drops, unbalanced spells or
monsters)
-other stuff only with caution

Or what is being made is a variant (which is fine, of course)

I think it can go a little further than that - I think things can be added that fit within the framework. For example, making traps more interesting/varied, adding a couple more dungeon generators, moving to a rune-based ID system. But much further than that I think you run into problems.

[Antoine]

> We have decided that the best course of action is to begin work on a rapid-development, experimental codebase named v4. [snip] In parallel, we will continue to fix bugs and cautiously and incrementally develop V.

Can I just say that this seems a really solid basis on which to proceed. v4 seems likely to develop into an interesting variant, and I think many will be happier with a careful and gradual process for developing mainline V.

What should we expect V 3.4 to look like? Any particular new features expected?

A.

[takkaria]

> We have decided that the best course of action is to begin work on a rapid-development, experimental codebase named v4. [snip] In parallel, we will continue to fix bugs and cautiously and incrementally develop V.

Can I just say that this seems a really solid basis on which to proceed. v4 seems likely to develop into an interesting variant, and I think many will be happier with a careful and gradual process for developing mainline V.

What should we expect V 3.4 to look like? Any particular new features expected?

There's already quite a few changes in 3.4 as compared to 3.3 (smaller stack sizes, new monster pit and nest types, tweaked monsters [Angels -> Ainu, rethink of poison resistance, toughened early dungeon animals, more mimic-y mimics], artifacts rarer, torches are radius 1 again, tweaked class stat boosts and reduced stat points at the beginning of the game, drain exp on objects is slightly more effective, items pseudo on pickup at clev20, more expensive items).

Other things that might come are Eddie's improved ego ID code, minor nerfing of detection, and maybe a reduction of the quality of items available near the beginning of the game.

Suggestions (and patches) always welcome!

[Antoine]

There's already quite a few changes in 3.4 as compared to 3.3 (smaller stack sizes, new monster pit and nest types, tweaked monsters [Angels -> Ainu, rethink of poison resistance, toughened early dungeon animals, more mimic-y mimics], artifacts rarer, torches are radius 1 again, tweaked class stat boosts and reduced stat points at the beginning of the game, drain exp on objects is slightly more effective, items pseudo on pickup at clev20, more expensive items).

Good stuff.

Could object detection become harder to access?

As long as we're looking at early dungeon animals, can we remove the ability to open/break doors from many of them?

A.

[Magnate]

Good stuff.

Could object detection become harder to access?

As long as we're looking at early dungeon animals, can we remove the ability to open/break doors from many of them?

Have you tried locking and spiking doors? We made some changes to that in 3.3 and it's now possible to lock and spike a door so that it holds for long enough for you to get away.

[takkaria]

Good stuff.

Could object detection become harder to access?

As long as we're looking at early dungeon animals, can we remove the ability to open/break doors from many of them?

A.

Maybe they should try more times before managing to bash them down. And as to object detection, currently proposed changes (per Trac) are:

• remove rods of dObj
• make rods of Detection fuzzy-detect, by just showing the locations of items but not the items themselves
• make scrolls of dObj dungeon-only but also found in stacks (and maybe fuzz detection?)
• remove treasure detection abilities of all but rogues (detect enchantment could then become mass-visible-ID)

[fizzix]

• remove rods of dObj
• make rods of Detection fuzzy-detect, by just showing the locations of items but not the items themselves
• make scrolls of dObj dungeon-only but also found in stacks (and maybe fuzz detection?)
• remove treasure detection abilities of all but rogues (detect enchantment could then become mass-visible-ID)

1 and 3 are trivial. They could be put in immediately.

[Antoine]

1 and 3 are trivial. They could be put in immediately.

fizzix weren't you planning some changes around Teleport Level and Deep Descent as well?

A.

[buzzkill]

fizzix weren't you planning some changes around Teleport Level and Deep Descent as well?

This thread had some good ideas that seemed to be acceptable to the community as a whole.

[Antoine]

This thread had some good ideas that seemed to be acceptable to the community as a whole.

Yes, I remember. And wasn't there another, more recent thread about the availability of Destruction and Banishment consumables? I thought it had some good points

A.

[konijn_]

Hello everyone,

<snip>
This is an experiment, and we'll have to see how it goes. Please bear with us.

Andi Sidwell

This move seems so 'Duh, of course!' in retrospect.

I fully support this!

T.