A new direction for Angband

[takkaria]

Hello everyone,

I'm writing this on behalf of the development team.

For some time, there has been some debate about the direction of the game.

• Some people want it to go into "maintenance mode" and make minimal changes, preferably starting from some previous version.
• Most people seem to accept some changes if implemented cautiously and incrementally.
• Other people, concerned about V's core balance issues, want a serious rethinking of the game mechanics, which may result in a prolonged period of imbalance. Some think that this approach would damage the feel of V.

Something had to give. We have decided that the best course of action is to begin work on a rapid-development, experimental codebase named v4. v4 will contain many ideas and changes designed to improve the core gameplay of V, some of which may be included in V if they prove popular with the community and don't damage the feel of V. But there is no presumption that this will be the case, and lots of things will change in v4 that won't appear in V.

In parallel, we will continue to fix bugs and cautiously and incrementally develop V. The target release date for Angband 3.4 remains early 2012, and there are no plans for any major changes at yet.

What the practical implications of this fork will be, obviously we can't know yet. We're obviously hoping this will make everyone happier. New features can be tested without annoying people with the pace of change, since they will not be implemented in V unless they are thoroughly tested and proven. The same team of people will be working on both projects for the most part.

Anyone interested is, of course, welcome to fork the new repository and submit pull requests.

This is an experiment, and we'll have to see how it goes. Please bear with us.

Any questions?

Andi Sidwell

[Derakon]

Interesting. So you're basically pre-empting whoever was planning on forking Vanilla to make "RealAngband" (or whatever).

Well, I hope it works out without creating too much extra work for you all. I appreciate all the time and effort you devs have put into the game.

[Jungle_Boy]

I'm excited to start playtesting v4 but I cannot build it myself, will you be releasing compiled versions for players like me?

[Timo Pietilä]

Any questions?

Any chance to get autobuilder version of v4 so that other people than coders can test it too? Or at least source download tarball every now and then without bothering with git messes?

[Magnate]

Any chance to get autobuilder version of v4 so that other people than coders can test it too? Or at least source download tarball every now and then without bothering with git messes?

Yes, we will definitely be auto-building v4 for linux/Windows/OSX. The autobuilder should be set up in the next few days. Pls note the OSX port is currently broken for the same reason as V (it's not UTF-8 friendly yet).

[myshkin]

Yes, we will definitely be auto-building v4 for linux/Windows/OSX. The autobuilder should be set up in the next few days. Pls note the OSX port is currently broken for the same reason as V (it's not UTF-8 friendly yet).

I will definitely get to this last bit eventually if no one else does, but would be happy to see pull requests from someone else. I don't have an ETA yet.

[GeoffHill]

The trick is working out when you are no longer developing Vanilla. When it's a variant. Maybe you need a list of features that make the original game, the original game. For me that's the base artifact list and mechanism for finding them, and the core "spells" and combat mechanics.

Just promise me you won't respell Qllqllzuup. It will be forever a memorial to my drunken days as a student.

[artes]

Just promise me you won't respell Qllqllzuup. It will be forever a memorial to my drunken days as a student.

Yes, I guess the list of uniques can't be changed too much. There's a lot of nostalgia when meeting good old this or that again. The same with the artifacts.

[fizzix]

Just promise me you won't respell Qllqllzuup. It will be forever a memorial to my drunken days as a student.

What's a Qllqllzuup? I only know of a Qlzqqlzuup. Are you drunk? I can't think of any other reason to make such an egregious spelling error.

[GeoffHill]

What's a Qllqllzuup? I only know of a Qlzqqlzuup. Are you drunk? I can't think of any other reason to make such an egregious spelling error.

Well, when I designed the Unique in question I was drunk, and cackling at how much it would annoy players for years to come, so I think all spellings are valid

[Bandobras]

Sounds like a good idea, especially after so long a period of hectic changes (to which I offer a blanket approval, BTW, I believe they let players discover and enjoy the very heart of the Angbandness of Angband, which would otherwise be obscured by various superficial flaws). However, starting a game in one version and ending in a totally different version, for which some of the early game choices are no longer optimal, feels queer. Good luck!

[Timo Pietilä]

The trick is working out when you are no longer developing Vanilla. When it's a variant. Maybe you need a list of features that make the original game, the original game. For me that's the base artifact list and mechanism for finding them, and the core "spells" and combat mechanics.

Just promise me you won't respell Qllqllzuup. It will be forever a memorial to my drunken days as a student.

Welcome back! I haven't seen you around for a long time.

I have been playing frog-knows (1.31 PC version actually) lately, and I find it just as entertaining as modern vanilla. I only miss few UI improvements like disarm on movement, macros and better targeting. With those in frog-knows it could well be better game than modern vanilla is, which tells me that at some point development has taken a very bad turn. Game should improve over time. It has not done that enough.

Now I'm too sick to play anything requiring concentration (have a flu. A bad one).

[GeoffHill]

Welcome back! I haven't seen you around for a long time.

I have been playing frog-knows (1.31 PC version actually) lately, and I find it just as entertaining as modern vanilla. I only miss few UI improvements like disarm on movement, macros and better targeting. With those in frog-knows it could well be better game than modern vanilla is, which tells me that at some point development has taken a very bad turn. Game should improve over time. It has not done that enough.

Now I'm too sick to play anything requiring concentration (have a flu. A bad one).

Really? Hmm. Frog knows wasn't exactly stable! Things like impact hounds and time hounds would kill your character because of a crash, for example.

Perhaps it's sensible to try and work out where and why the path has gone wrong then, if there are things that made modern vanilla worse.

I do see some of the proposed changes are re-inserting some of the original characteristics (like race balancing).

[fph]

Really? Hmm. Frog knows wasn't exactly stable! Things like impact hounds and time hounds would kill your character because of a crash, for example.

Well, the crash part has been fixed maybe, but I can confirm that Time Hounds continue to kill my character also in the current version...

[Magnate]

However, starting a game in one version and ending in a totally different version, for which some of the early game choices are no longer optimal, feels queer.

I may have misunderstood you, but it would not be advisable for anyone to move savefiles between V and v4. Keep them completely separate.

Ah, no, perhaps you mean that v4 will develop so fast that by the time you finish a game it will be totally different. Much as I like the sound of that, I doubt we'll progress *that* quickly. Besides, v4 comes with a significant health warning in the top-level readme to finish your current character before upgrading to any new version.