Experiences with Frog-knows

[d_m]

I agree with Timo here... my most common reaction to reading Curse Weapon or Curse Armor is to quit Angband. Maybe later I'll go back, try to remove the curse, etc. but usually it just pisses me off.

The effect is exactly what I think is wrong with the ID minigame. Things like Potion of Sleep, Potion of Poison, Potion of Slowness, etc. are all fine... if I start drinking them in desperation during combat they may kill me, but if I survive then things are fine. In fact, I would argue that I mind Potion of Death less than Scroll of Curse Armor just because the game makes the choice about whether I should try to continue for me

Someone had the idea that the scroll should just apply a curse (without killing enchantments). That might be OK instead. But my preference is for removing the scrolls.

[Magnate]

I agree with Timo here... my most common reaction to reading Curse Weapon or Curse Armor is to quit Angband. Maybe later I'll go back, try to remove the curse, etc. but usually it just pisses me off.

The effect is exactly what I think is wrong with the ID minigame. Things like Potion of Sleep, Potion of Poison, Potion of Slowness, etc. are all fine... if I start drinking them in desperation during combat they may kill me, but if I survive then things are fine. In fact, I would argue that I mind Potion of Death less than Scroll of Curse Armor just because the game makes the choice about whether I should try to continue for me

Someone had the idea that the scroll should just apply a curse (without killing enchantments). That might be OK instead. But my preference is for removing the scrolls.

I think the game would be more interesting if it was accepted that certain bad things sometimes happen to equipment, over and above losing plusses from disen. But people hated that idea last time it came up (and that was only for temporary bad things), so it looks like removing the scrolls is the only acceptable option in the current climate.

[Timo Pietilä]

I think the game would be more interesting if it was accepted that certain bad things sometimes happen to equipment, over and above losing plusses from disen. But people hated that idea last time it came up (and that was only for temporary bad things), so it looks like removing the scrolls is the only acceptable option in the current climate.

I just got an idea about curses that create quests. How about removing curse requires killing the monster that created the curse, and that would restore the item at its full power. The stronger the original item, the worse the cursed variant of it should be.

You could make monsters cursing your equipment, when you kill the monster in question the curse dissolves. If you change level without killing the monster curse becomes permanent (or requires something really rare to remove it) unless the monster was unique in which case you get a second chance removing it.

Initially cursed artifacts could list which unique monster has cast that curse. As long as that unique is alive you could find only cursed version of the thing, when it is dead only non-cursed would appear. Obviously only "smart" monsters could create curses.

I haven't thought that thru, just writing before I forget it.

[d_m]

I just got an idea about curses that create quests. How about removing curse requires killing the monster that created the curse, and that would restore the item at its full power. The stronger the original item, the worse the cursed variant of it should be.

I think something like that would work really well.

One example could be that you hit a level with Glaurung on it, so you become cursed by Glaurung (maybe some uniques have a % chance to do this). I'm not sure if the curse would make the item bad, or do something else, but the idea would be that until you kill Glaurung it'd stay around (and you'd probably see Glaurung more frequently than usual).

I also like items which start out cursed/bad (e.g. Calris) but instead of just using enchant scrolls you do something "quest-like" to restore it.

Anyway, these are good ideas... I'll write them down.

[Nick]

Anyway, these are good ideas... I'll write them down.

Put 'em on the TODO list

[buzzkill]

I think you're both being a litle melodramatic (timo, dm), but I've already said my piece and have nothing more to add.

[Storm-Sky]

You know I love angband, but I still play moria often, so if you want to go way back try druid moria colorized. The options and UI are not nearly as good as angband, but in a way it was a whole lot simpler, with less junk, but it still had good items. It still had your skeletons on the floor and broken weapons, but that was really most of the junk you saw and that adds something to the game. The first couple levels were challenging but it got fairly difficult as you went down.
Not having accsses to restorative potions in town all the time, or enchant weapon scrolls, consumables, is what made it difficult, and also there was no poison resist. If angband could blend the old ways with the better bugfixing and ui of the new versions it would be great.

[Timo Pietilä]

Sound not only stuns but causes confusion to movements. This really hurts. Nexus hounds appear sooner, or it feels like it. I just got my STR swapped with DEX. All items with bonuses seem to have small bonus up to 1600' (max +2 in any of the things that affect stats this far). Artifact are a lot more rare.

[UglySquirrell]

To hit, and damage bonuses were a lot smaller too. Found the short sword "Giletter" its Dagmor in the newer versions I think (+4,+7) Dagmor is (+13,+11) also found the quarterstt "Eriril" (+5,+5) now its (+13,+15) not sure why damage was increased so much, did monster hp get a large boost since the older versions?

[Timo Pietilä]

To hit, and damage bonuses were a lot smaller too. Found the short sword "Giletter" its Dagmor in the newer versions I think (+4,+7) Dagmor is (+13,+11) also found the quarterstt "Eriril" (+5,+5) now its (+13,+15) not sure why damage was increased so much, did monster hp get a large boost since the older versions?

No, those were supposed to make low-level artifacts more interesting. Useless to useful.

[Derakon]

Not that the *thancs needed any help in that regard...

[Timo Pietilä]

Not that the *thancs needed any help in that regard...

Not that much. Now they are almost Sting-rivaling weapons. Way better than most other low level artifacts, and definitely better than almost all low-level egos. You need to get HA or Westernesse and actually need the WIS or the STR/DEX/CON bonuses before those beat *thancs.

My current char would much more like to have a 3.3 *thanc than F-K Glamdring.

[Timo Pietilä]

Found jelly pit with potion and some scroll in it. I was sure it wasn't jelly pit until I opened the door (because there were items inside).

It seems that pits lost their capability to contain items at some point (early) in development only to get that back in very late versions.

[MattB]

Just trawling and I came across this 3 year old post.
I thought it had great ideas and should be reconsidered.
I'd vote for all of them - skeletons, coffins and statues.

I'd prefer flavour junk to be in the shape of more 'dungeon furniture' like chests; things that might have traps on, sometimes turn out to be monsters, or could be smashed or opened to reveal monsters/items. Have skeletons lying around that sometimes come to life if you step too near them, coffins that can be opened and might contain an undead or a treasure, statues that you can sometimes smash to get treasure and other times turn out to be disguised golems, etc.

[Carnivean]

I also found parts of this thread interesting. Thanks for the necromancy Matt.

Junk items as atmosphere or indicators of monster activity would be good to have in the game. The current squelch mechanism makes it pointless to add them in as items though. I'd see one, squelch it, and never see them again. Perhaps there needs to be a term window that shows descriptions of things that you see?

You see:
piles of skeletons
broken armor, rent by claws
fresh corpses, charred
burnt tapestries on the wall

Meaning something like a dragon has a history of being here, and recently too.

My suggestion would be to make wands and staves much heavier, so that the real value of stacks of rods is their lower weight. Currently wands are 1lb, staves are 5lb and rods are 1.5lb. I'd put wands up to 4lb and staves up to 8lb and see how it played.

Sangband prevents staves stacking, but also allows them to take two fire or acid baths before being destroyed ("damaged" and "badly damaged"). This is another possibility.

Reading this section, I was struck by the fact that staves are one size fits all. The are all wooden, with the same chance of destruction on recharge. Why aren't there metal staves (that resist fire), and are unlikely to combust on recharge (combustion due to too much magic of course...)? Metal staves would weigh much more than wooden ones, so you'd be penalised for carrying too many of them, and carrying only a few means disenchantment would be more of a threat. Creating a metal staff would obviously be more taxing (as metal is less innately magic than metal or something) so they would be rarer.

Then you could you find mithril staves. Almost indestructible, lighter than even wooden staves, but rarer even than mithril armour.

I'd like to see the ability to recharge staves with different spells or powers at a cost. You have this object (a staff) that you've imbued with the power to hold a magic. Why wouldn't it be able to hold a different spell? Actually I can think of reasons, but that doesn't preclude the possibility. Find a metal staff of confuse monster, drain it of charges, use x game mechanism to imbue a new power of, say, speed. The mechanism could be a shop (different spells have different costs) or a spell, or a rarely found scroll.

Also a quick note on the weights. Wands of almost every depiction are oversized pencils, so I have no idea how a weight of even 1lb could be justified. 4lbs would be ludicrous. Might as well call them clubs at that point, as use them for melee instead.