This level seems terribly dangerous

[Timo Pietilä]

Monster list term window:
you can see 23 monsters

Z 23 Time Hounds.

What to do? Teleport without knowing where I land....erm...seems to be that this is the only choice I have. (mental note, start carrying scrolls of earthquake/*destruction*).

Good thing that I have guaranteed first move and had ESP so that I saw those before moving.

I thought pack size was reduced at some point. Has that been reverted, or was it only in my mind?

[Tobias]

What was the level feeling you got for this?

[d_m]

I thought pack size was reduced at some point. Has that been reverted, or was it only in my mind?

I think Fizzix has done that but I'm not sure it's in staging now and I'm pretty certain it's not in 3.3-RC.

[PowerDiver]

I thought pack size was reduced at some point. Has that been reverted, or was it only in my mind?

23 is not that many. Who is to say there wouldn't have been 35 of them?

[Timo Pietilä]

What was the level feeling you got for this?

"This level seems terribly dangerous"

I'm around 4200' which means those were not the reason for level feeling. In fact there were several uniques on the level which I couldn't handle at that time. For some reason monster melee-damage seem to have got higher, meleeing is now difficult method for killing high-end things.

[Derakon]

I believe that the rules for monster chance-to-hit were tweaked recently, with the net effect that AC is now much less effective than it used to be. This results in a significant increase in the damage you take while in melee range.

[Timo Pietilä]

I believe that the rules for monster chance-to-hit were tweaked recently, with the net effect that AC is now much less effective than it used to be. This results in a significant increase in the damage you take while in melee range.

That doesn't feel right. I have AC of 138 and it is not enough to fight monsters like Greater Titans. Those things cause with all hits hit around 300-350 points of damage. It's no longer fun.

[buzzkill]

That doesn't feel right. I have AC of 138 and it is not enough to fight monsters like Greater Titans. Those things cause with all hits hit around 300-350 points of damage. It's no longer fun.

I don't think an AC of 138 is all that great anymore. Isn't 200+ easily attained? Greater titans should kick butt. If fighting them isn't fun, don't do it. I've never found fighting them to be much fun.

[Timo Pietilä]

I don't think an AC of 138 is all that great anymore. Isn't 200+ easily attained?

Looks like not. I have Thalkettoth, Colluin, Shield of Preservation [2,+12] {sust STR, DEX, CON, rSound, rDisen}, Thranduil, Cammithrim and BoS [2,+10] totaling +126 with DEX 18/*** (136 with Elessar instead of Trickery, but then I lose rNexus which I still need because non-maxed INT, WIS and CHR). I don't expect that to get much better, maybe something like 40 points from shield and boots upgrade.

I could get that over 200+ with gear I have home but that would mean wearing way way sub-optimal gear.

[EDIT] Actually I can't. 158 + DEX +12 = 170 AC is best I can get from gear I have at home.

[Tibarius]

time hounds

I just got wasted by a group of time hounds (offscreen) *sigh*. What kind of windows do you all use?

My main window fits basically for town level. THat is roughly estimated something around 70 rows and 21 lines. That makes it 10 lines visible up and down (which is just 1/2 of the spell/breath range).

Any ideas what i could do about it?

Cheers,
Tibarius

P.S. How does AC work at all? I have no clue about it.

[Timo Pietilä]

I just got wasted by a group of time hounds (offscreen) *sigh*. What kind of windows do you all use?

P.S. How does AC work at all? I have no clue about it.

I use similar-sized main window, but in addition to that I have term-window with monster list. That does show what monsters my character see even if I don't.

AC basically makes hitting you more difficult, and in addition to that it reduces damage from certain kind of melee-attacks (shatter, hurt IICR). I have no clue what the actual calculations are.

[Derakon]

The actual calculations are complicated, which is why nobody has an answer handy. I think it was Myshkin who figured out how they worked (and then proceeded to tweak them so you'd get hit more often).

My main window takes up my entire main monitor; figure it's at least twice as wide and tall as the standard size. I stick extra terminals, including the monster list, on a second display.

[Magnate]

That doesn't feel right. I have AC of 138 and it is not enough to fight monsters like Greater Titans. Those things cause with all hits hit around 300-350 points of damage. It's no longer fun.

You can blame Eddie for that. He pointed out, correctly, that I had neglected to change the monster to-hit formula when I extended the AC scale, with the result that the new higher ACs obtainable (people have reached 300+ with Shield) meant that monsters were missing too often. There was a recent thread where Eddie counted that Kronos (or Atlas, I forget) hit him about one time in twelve.

So, we fixed it. Monsters now hit you as often as they used to in 3.0.x, when adamantite plate gave only 40AC rather than 80. One less thing for Eddie to bitch about.

[fizzix]

I think Fizzix has done that but I'm not sure it's in staging now and I'm pretty certain it's not in 3.3-RC.

Nope. The only thing I changed was summoning. Pack size has not changed. Anytime I mention it, I get lots of complaints against it.

10+ time or gravity hounds that will cause instant death is not a part of the game that I find enjoyable, because the solution is to use a zero fail escape (?tl or ?dd is what I'd use when I landed in a room full of them.) Right now they appear on levels rarely enough that it's not terribly annoying. However, it's not interesting, it's not fun, and it doesn't add difficulty to the game beyond the reservation of an inventory slot for those items, and the requirement of the knowledge to abandon the level immediately.

edit: summoning is not tweaked in 3.3-RC, just in 3.4. And if people dislike it, it'll probably be yanked.

[fizzix]

Actually I can't. 158 + DEX +12 = 170 AC is best I can get from gear I have at home.

honestly 138 is a low value. You're used to prioritizing for resists and not for AC. I've hit 250 AC in games (300 with shield). And then, you can melee the titans without breaking a sweat. Something like regular magical adamantite plate mail might actually be useful in some games, instead of just being junk.