Exploitable information leak?

[Magnate]

But otherwise, is there a problem with being able to know what a monster is carrying?

Well, I don't know what takkaria's view is (the previous functionality was intentional, but I don't know how far back it went), but mine is that @ should not be able to see what a monster is carrying. One day in the distant future s/he might be able to discern obvious stuff like bows and crossbows, but never stuff like potions and scrolls. And if we ever get that far, monsters should be *wearing* armour that they're going to drop, which is gonna make the whole issue of balancing combat very interesting ...

[jens]

If you are thinking about taking on one of the drop_great uniques, are you going to be more enthusiastic if it is carrying:
(a) 2 deep spellbooks of the kind that you don't use, and an amulet that you already have
or
(b) a longsword(4d5), balance DSM and a ring of speed

Aha, Unique scumming until they have the right drops... Well might be an issue I guess

[jens]

Well, I don't know what takkaria's view is (the previous functionality was intentional, but I don't know how far back it went), but mine is that @ should not be able to see what a monster is carrying. One day in the distant future s/he might be able to discern obvious stuff like bows and crossbows, but never stuff like potions and scrolls. And if we ever get that far, monsters should be *wearing* armour that they're going to drop, which is gonna make the whole issue of balancing combat very interesting ...

And that lucky orc that uses up all the charges on his wand of dragon breath before dropping it ;-)

Yeah I guess it's best to move slowly... but I really look forward to the variation we might get from monsters using their would be drops :-)

[Magnate]

And that lucky orc that uses up all the charges on his wand of dragon breath before dropping it ;-)

Yeah I guess it's best to move slowly... but I really look forward to the variation we might get from monsters using their would be drops :-)

Have you tried Un? I think it's moved quite a long way in this direction.

[jens]

Nope... Have actually never come around to try any variant...

[PowerDiver]

Well, I don't know what takkaria's view is (the previous functionality was intentional, but I don't know how far back it went), but mine is that @ should not be able to see what a monster is carrying. One day in the distant future s/he might be able to discern obvious stuff like bows and crossbows, but never stuff like potions and scrolls. And if we ever get that far, monsters should be *wearing* armour that they're going to drop, which is gonna make the whole issue of balancing combat very interesting ...

I fully agree, but I think the previous functionality makes sense too for items picked up by the monster.

If you see a monster pick up an item, IMO the game should remember for you that you know that. Even if the monster is not in LOS, you can still know if it is the only monster with pickup that went nearby. It might be worth adding an IDENT style flag saying whether the item was ever seen or detected, or something like that. This is probably more trouble than it is worth, but I detest the idea that players would ever gain from taking notes to remember what the game should remember for them.

[Netbrian]

Well, I don't know what takkaria's view is (the previous functionality was intentional, but I don't know how far back it went), but mine is that @ should not be able to see what a monster is carrying.

What about if they probe the monster?

[Max Stats]

And that lucky orc that uses up all the charges on his wand of dragon breath before dropping it ;-)

Yeah I guess it's best to move slowly... but I really look forward to the variation we might get from monsters using their would be drops :-)

Memories of Nethack and monsters with wands of death spring to mind.

[Magnate]

I fully agree, but I think the previous functionality makes sense too for items picked up by the monster.

If you see a monster pick up an item, IMO the game should remember for you that you know that. Even if the monster is not in LOS, you can still know if it is the only monster with pickup that went nearby. It might be worth adding an IDENT style flag saying whether the item was ever seen or detected, or something like that. This is probably more trouble than it is worth, but I detest the idea that players would ever gain from taking notes to remember what the game should remember for them.

I share your antipathy for note-taking and agree that the game should remember this kind of stuff. But I think cave orcs (or novice rogues, or whatever) all look alike, so as soon as the thief disappears from LOS I think the information should be gone.

You're right that it's lots of pain for little gain though, but no harm opening a ticket for it in case someone is inspired to do it.

@netbrian: I rather like the idea of allowing probing to reveal what's in a monster inventory - that would suddenly make it rather useful.

[Zikke]

In my game, the 'l'ook command does not list monster inventory. Is this only in one of the nightly versions? I'm still using 3.2

[Magnate]

In my game, the 'l'ook command does not list monster inventory. Is this only in one of the nightly versions? I'm still using 3.2

In your version, monster drops are not generated until death, so the monsters are not carrying anything they haven't picked up. When they do pick something up, you'll be able to see it with 'l'ook.

[SSK]

In my game, the 'l'ook command does not list monster inventory. Is this only in one of the nightly versions? I'm still using 3.2

I never noticed a monster inventory list in the nightly I recently played (was it 4/23 or 5/5?) but maybe that is because i don't have things displayed right. I usually just at the monster memory window on the right side and the game narrative on the left, and maybe it isn't found in these places.

[Magnate]

I never noticed a monster inventory list in the nightly I recently played (was it 4/23 or 5/5?) but maybe that is because i don't have things displayed right. I usually just at the monster memory window on the right side and the game narrative on the left, and maybe it isn't found in these places.

It isn't. It only appears when you're using the 'l'ook command, you look at a monster, and then press space.

[Timo Pietilä]

In your version, monster drops are not generated until death, so the monsters are not carrying anything they haven't picked up. When they do pick something up, you'll be able to see it with 'l'ook.

Tested, you can't. Made a debug-char and dropped a scroll in front of Village Idiot and he picked it up. Looked, no info. Looked and recalled, no info. How is it supposed to show it? In recall-window?

[Timo Pietilä]

It isn't. It only appears when you're using the 'l'ook command, you look at a monster, and then press space.

You should have said that two minutes faster. Now I asked how to get that info when you had already answered to it here.

Question raises: how long has this been in the game? I never noticed that before.