Info in Monster Descriptions

[Tregonsee]

While reading the new Vanilla 3.2 monster descriptions, I see notations like "produce water balls (104)". What does the 104 mean? Is there any importance in the color coding of the descriptions?

[fyonn]

the 104 will be the HP damage that the spell causes

[Derakon]

I'm pretty sure this is average damage, not max damage, at least when it comes to spells. Breath weapons should be max since there's no random component. Could someone please verify?

[myshkin]

I'm pretty sure this is average damage, not max damage, at least when it comes to spells. Breath weapons should be max since there's no random component. Could someone please verify?

You are correct for both breath weapons and spells. How the damage varies around the average differs depending on the spell; for example, mana storms are 10d10 + 5*monster level. If you have the source, you can see the various formulae in monster/constants.h (look for the _DMG macros).

[Tiburon Silverflame]

And I believe the color coding correlates to resistances, at least where that's possible.

Hey, Tregonsee, I hear there's a cache of thionite on DL 19....

[Timo Pietilä]

I'm pretty sure this is average damage, not max damage, at least when it comes to spells. Breath weapons should be max since there's no random component. Could someone please verify?

Breath weapons have a random component, but it doesn't come from breath calculation directly: Monster HP is slightly random. AFAIK only uniques have completely fixed HP now.

That means that even that AMHD shows something like 650 for elemental breaths, it might be able to do a bit more (or less). It depends of the monster how much more (or less).

[Tregonsee]

So breath weapons are random based on a variety of factors (chief is current HP of monster) and spells are pretty constant?

Or do spells have a range? If so, why not post that instead?

I sent Spike after the thionite...

[Derakon]

Monster breath raw damage is based solely on the monster's current HP, and is thus not random beyond that monster HP is itself random (and may I say I don't really like how monster.txt no longer accurately tells you how many HP a monster can have?). Certain resistances (e.g. nether resistance) reduce incoming damage by a semi-random factor though.

Spell damage is always a range, and in fact I'm fairly certain that every spell that does damage deals some variation of K + XdY. Monster memory should probably show this range, if only so players don't get surprised by Morgoth getting a lucky manastorm.

[fizzix]

Spell damage is always a range, and in fact I'm fairly certain that every spell that does damage deals some variation of K + XdY. Monster memory should probably show this range, if only so players don't get surprised by Morgoth getting a lucky manastorm.

would you settle for an upper bound?

[Tiburon Silverflame]

Max is probably more useful than average.

[PowerDiver]

Max is probably more useful than average.

If you go for max, there is some more stuff you can do. You can include known resists, and you can adjust max breath damage according to the *'s left on the monster health bar.

[Derakon]

Agreed with Tiburon. If we're only going to show one value, it should be the most pessimistic one.

[Tiburon Silverflame]

I'm gonna argue for Keep It Simple, Eddie. Yes, you could throw in a bunch more stuff, but the status screen's already pretty complex. I'd rather keep simple, consistent statements that don't vary on monster condition/equipment set. OR, a shorthand, something like this:

"breathes(*) for 560"

with some form of helplesson comment pointing out that breath weapons do damage based on monster health. I think it's potentially more confusing to see constantly changing numbers.

[PowerDiver]

I'm gonna argue for Keep It Simple, Eddie. Yes, you could throw in a bunch more stuff, but the status screen's already pretty complex. I'd rather keep simple, consistent statements that don't vary on monster condition/equipment set. OR, a shorthand, something like this:

"breathes(*) for 560"

with some form of helplesson comment pointing out that breath weapons do damage based on monster health. I think it's potentially more confusing to see constantly changing numbers.

I agree multiple numbers would be bad, but saying "currently breathes at most xxx fire, yyy cold, zzz nether" seems straightforward enough. We disagree on whether the confusion from changing numbers, which at least tell the truth, is more or worse than expecting a newbie to know how the numbers change with multiple resists and the different treatments of high vs low resists.

[edit] Another way to reduce the confusion would be to change the mechanic. It has always seemed strange to me that a dragon breathes for less damage after you slice its leg. Is there any good reason for the breath to depend on current hp rather than max hp?

[Timo Pietilä]

So breath weapons are random based on a variety of factors (chief is current HP of monster) and spells are pretty constant?

Or do spells have a range? If so, why not post that instead?

Breaths have damage caps. Spells don't. Spells vary with mlevel, type, and randomness way more than breaths.

Breaths are always some fixed fraction of the monster current HP or max cap if that is less than that fraction.

Deep darkness storm makes more damage than darkness breath.

High-element resists are pretty random, you get 6/7 to 1/2 damage range for nether for example (550 cap => 471 max damage with resist), other high resists have similar, but not necessary same calculation. Poison counts as basic4 in this, basic 4 resists drop damage to 1/3 can can be double-resisted with 1/9 damage (and further, acid is reduced with another 1/2 if it tries to damage armor slot with armor that isn't already reduced to zero AC (it always tries to damage some slot)).