User interface in Angband 4 (feedback requested!)

[AnonymousHero]

For more information on the plans, there is a more technical version (with another diagram!) on Trac. Sounds like you'd approach it similarly to how I am.

Indeed. I (of course) think the plan sounds very reasonable .

Just a little bonus question: Are you planning to go threaded or are you going for a full inversion of control (aka event-based) for the game logic? IIRC, a lot of the current logic expects to be able to block waiting for a keystroke...

[thapper]

I would suggest that Tim Baker's OmnibandTk is another excellent example of how *band UI can work.

Seconded! The minimap in OmnibandTK, for example, is a feature I would love to have in angband.

[Bostock]

Here's a squeaky-wheel request for larger maximum font sizes shipped with the game. The 16x24 limit is one of the main things that makes me shy away from Angband and most variants. 32x32 may sound big, but screens aren't as small as they used to be...

(I don't like tiles, in part because they can be hard to read efficiently even at 32x32.)

[takkaria]

Indeed. I (of course) think the plan sounds very reasonable .

Just a little bonus question: Are you planning to go threaded or are you going for a full inversion of control (aka event-based) for the game logic? IIRC, a lot of the current logic expects to be able to block waiting for a keystroke...

No plans to go threaded, no. We're still going to be blocking on input.

[PowerWyrm]

Angband 4 will be as incompatible with existing variant code as Ben Harrison's Angband was to the variants that came before it. There will be pretty much no easy way to port code across from V4 to variants because of how deep the display assumptions in the code are. This makes me sad, but sometimes good things are painful to go through.

Why do I want these things? Well, if we want convincing handheld ports (and I do), at some point the game logic has to be decoupled from its display. The approach outlined above could result in extremely playable Android or iPhone ports, without worrying about virtual keyboards, and making use of native UI on those devices (without adding a load of hacks into the game proper).

As PWMAngband variant maintainer, which is real time and multiplayer, it's a pain in the b**t for me to port interesting changes from Vanilla when the changes involve a mix of user input and game logic. For example, it's hard to port code which asks the user to enter a key (client side) and, at the same time, modifies the internal structures of the game (players, monsters, objects... server side). Having display code and game code separated would be heaven! And if the code is incompatible with current variant code, then I'm even willing to recode my variant...

[RogerN]

I think it's a great idea to aim for complete separation of display and game logic, though I hate to think about the huge amount of work involved.

If done correctly then even the die-hard ASCII-only guys should be happy, since clean logic/display separation would allow for the creation of display code which exactly duplicates the current UI.

[Mondkalb]

I still have fond memories of AngbandTK which sadly has not been continued.

I think this kind of windowed interface including a minimap would be a great addition to the game and making it more accessible to newbies:

http://seoman-mondkalb.org/angband/angbandtk.gif

Regardless of the nice isometric view of this version it would also fit to the vanilla 2D view.

[buzzkill]

Although I didn't play it much, I became fond of ToME 4's hot keys (I guess they would replace keymaps). Basically you just highlight an item or spell with the cursor or by scrolling up/down then press a number (1 thru 0) to assign it to invoke that action. There's even a little sub-window that shows you what you hot keys are assigned to. Currently you can't select items or spells by using up/down or the cursor, so that would need to be implemented, or you simply bind the key to the last action taken (whatever n would do). IMO it's much more user friendly than having to go through the options menu.

[Taha]

I like the whatever n would do option - that would make hot keys / macros so much easier to create. And you could always go to the menu to modify it slightly (for escape characters or whatever).

Right now, remembering the exact keystrokes for a targeted spell while in a menu with no feedback is awkward.
________
Roll A Joint

[Nick]

Something that has come up several times in my FA-updating process is the question of playing on smaller screens. It is possible that some of the things I'm raising have been answered by the Android people, so feel free to answer as rudely as you like

FA has two things:

1. A small device birth option, which halves view and spell distances (so has gameplay effects) and
2. A small screen option, which (crudely) abbreviates object and monster descriptions and has various other hacks to make playing on less than 80x24 screens less painful, but has only UI effects.

I am considering porting both of these to V/AngbandBase. Combining them seems as if it would be (a) easier and (b) sensible - right?

[d_m]

I am considering porting both of these to V/AngbandBase. Combining them seems as if it would be (a) easier and (b) sensible - right?

I would love to have these ported and am fine with them being combined.

[Magnate]

I would love to have these ported and am fine with them being combined.

I think I'd prefer them kept separate, but it's up to whoever's implementing it. Note that this option would also be helpful for those of us who'd like to use shockbolt's huge tiles but don't have huge monitors ...

[Chud]

For myself, I'm not sold on the need for more sophisticated graphics, but I would certainly have no objection as long as their use was optional. I somewhat suspect I wouldn't use them, but I'd have to see them to be sure.

Angband has its own character, and the interface is a part of that. If I'm in the mood for slick graphics, I can always play Mass Effect instead (and sometimes I do). That's not what I'm looking for in Angband.

Changes which make game play easier (more facile) are generally good, I think. Purely cosmetic ones... eh.