Changes to the Stores & Shopping?

[Timo Pietilä]

Apparently they don't have an impact on gameplay, because it's been gone for a couple of years and no-one noticed. I'm not opposed to it per se, but at one point there were something like three different factors affecting store prices and it was getting a bit silly.

I believe most noticed that stores have been radically changed several times, but didn't notice something as small as that to go away as well. It's minor change, people probably had quite a bit bigger issues with those changes to complain/comment about that.

When/if we remove chr completely, then I suggest we add that back to get even small variation in prices in town.

[fizzix]

I propose the simple, yet radical change of reducing all store maxima payouts to 2000.

[ewert]

I am playing with no_selling, which is just awesome for me atleast. All I could think about is making WoR stacks bigger in shops ... Otherwise I don't feel there is that much gameplay effect with mucking with stores to be worth the hassle before other things are changed.

[Lord Fell]

I think that Ironman is a well-established tradition for Angband, so it should be possible to add ironman-like store options. I don't play ironman myself, so I'd definitely want it to be optional.

Any thoughts on adding buy/sell modifiers on shopkeepers? Personally, I think that it would provide a bit more flavour to the game, as well as affecting the game at earlier levels when cash is tight (or perhaps at later games, when the Black Market has something you want but can't quite afford).

[Molach]

From a relatively fresh player's perspective:
Never used haggle, love auto-haggle, or rather just being paid what my stuff is worth. I hate haggle in real life, as well.
I kinda like the merchant-like playstyle. Trek to the dungeon, find stuff worth selling, take back to town and sell. This is useful or something to do when you are 'stuck' on a level (feel that you need a resist/more stats to proceed safely). Gather cash, sell stuff, find something in the shops and move on. I know many players of the diving conviction play differently, but for me I like to have the option to do that. So the selling-loads-of-stuff-and-buy-what-you-need game I'd like as it is. Black market is expensive, and other shops are mostly harmless anyway. Besides it is dangerous, overburdening and overconfidence can kill a char even if he were merely at a 'safe' level gathering stuff.

Different buy/sell prices would mostly be cosmetical, as would racial differences. In the game ADOM Dark Elves are penalized as one of two guaranteed has a dwarven shopkeeper. So that is a minus for that race, which some argue is compensated by superior skills. So if you give a shopping penalty to half-orcs, that might be balanced by...something.

Phase door, a kind of curing potion, word of recall, great to be assured of these. I do remember when they weren't guaranteed, and that just wasn't fun or even realistic. I mean, they are easy items for a master scribe/alchemist to make, and surely they notice that the adventurer buys a few every time in town. So of course they stock em. Potions of restore 'stat' are the closest item I see as a 'must-have' that isn't in stock now. Because you usually don't REALLY need them. However if your level 10 chars' STR got wrecked because you are an inexperienced player and fought something you shouldn't have mid-early in the game, you need one certain potion. And if it did not stock you really HAVE to do the rest 1000 turns on level 1 trick until you find it. Mabye 2-3 times if you were unlucky. And what would 1 out of 10 NEW players do then? Keep trying or quit back to WoW. Would the overall balance of the game be much disturbed if the alchemist always had a full set of these pots? Late game no matter, early game you have a cheap workaround anyway.

Anyway, I hate shopping in real life, but it's okay here in Angband...so keep it.

[Timo Pietilä]

Phase door, a kind of curing potion, word of recall, great to be assured of these. I do remember when they weren't guaranteed, and that just wasn't fun or even realistic. I mean, they are easy items for a master scribe/alchemist to make

This makes me wonder if we could at some point add sangband "create stuff from raw materials" -scheme in vanilla. It's one of the most fun part of that variant.

[PowerDiver]

I think that Ironman is a well-established tradition for Angband, so it should be possible to add ironman-like store options

There is, or at least was, a birth option for no_stores. Unfortunately, it closes the home as well as stores so it was too harsh to consider. If you go that far, you might as well play full ironman.

I cannot see Takkaria going for a set of multiple different ironman store options, but perhaps that one could be modified to be more interesting.

[Magnate]

Personally - and I realise this is probably a minority opinion - I was disappointed when the "auto_haggle" option was added. I think haggling added a lot of atmosphere to the town...

Ah, so there are two of us. Only two though, I think.

[Magnate]

This makes me wonder if we could at some point add sangband "create stuff from raw materials" -scheme in vanilla. It's one of the most fun part of that variant.

Agreed. Every time I play S I want to import forging into V. We would start without the essences, and just add the chunks and a clev- and class-based chance.

@Eddie: I would support changing birth_no_stores so that the home still worked. Let's canvas some other views ...

[ewert]

I have toyed with the idea of a "forgemaster" class or whatever instead of ranger. Prolly along the lines of whatever you guys are talking, haven't tried that variant so don't know for sure ...

[Magnate]

I have toyed with the idea of a "forgemaster" class or whatever instead of ranger. Prolly along the lines of whatever you guys are talking, haven't tried that variant so don't know for sure ...

Wow, if you have never played S then you are really missing out. Give it a try - try a dwarf and focus on putting all your xp into wrestling and forging, and see how you like it. You should start finding your first forging materials around dl10-15.

[Timo Pietilä]

Ah, so there are two of us. Only two though, I think.

Make that three. OTOH, I don't think it was a terrible loss to lose haggling, but I really miss those discounts stores used to have. Blade of Chaos (ultimate weapon) (extradiced5) (+mucho tohit, +mucho todam) {90% off}

gimmegimmegimme

[Adley]

Wow, if you have never played S then you are really missing out. Give it a try - try a dwarf and focus on putting all your xp into wrestling and forging, and see how you like it.

As soon as there's a mac build