Recharging

[Magnate]

I'm trying to fix the anomalies of recharge times - this has been discussed at length in previous threads, and the joy of moving to git is that if people don't like my changes they can be safely ignored without mucking up the nightlies.

Anyway, one of the major anomalies is that rods on the floor recharge but DSM on the floor does not. I cannot understand this at all, and am proposing to make all activatable items recharge when on the floor. Can anyone give me any reasons not to do this?

[camlost]

No. Go ahead and do it.

[Magnate]

No. Go ahead and do it.

Hmm. The original decision is an extension of the fact that DSM recharges when worn but not in the pack - hence not on the floor either. If I'm going to let it recharge on the floor then I need to let it recharge in the pack as well. I guess the distinction is that rods recharge anywhere, and everything else only recharges while it's actually worn.

I've also come round to the idea that recharge times need to remain independent of player speed. We just have to cope with the fact that faster chars get more actions while waiting for any given recharge time. It feels odd though, but I now think the "time bubble" concept is odder. I might switch back again though ...

[PowerDiver]

I'm trying to fix the anomalies of recharge times - this has been discussed at length in previous threads, and the joy of moving to git is that if people don't like my changes they can be safely ignored without mucking up the nightlies.

Anyway, one of the major anomalies is that rods on the floor recharge but DSM on the floor does not. I cannot understand this at all, and am proposing to make all activatable items recharge when on the floor. Can anyone give me any reasons not to do this?

Do you plan to treat all wieldables, including rings of acid and artifacts, that way too?

I always assumed it was because whoever wrote the code didn't think of all of the cases.

Also, IMO items in the home should recharge as well.

[Magnate]

Do you plan to treat all wieldables, including rings of acid and artifacts, that way too?

I always assumed it was because whoever wrote the code didn't think of all of the cases.

Also, IMO items in the home should recharge as well.

Yes, I did intend to let everything recharge on the floor. But I'd forgotten about the pack, which is the abuse case the original decision was intending to prevent. Still thinking ... how bad would it be to let stuff recharge in the pack?

[PowerDiver]

Yes, I did intend to let everything recharge on the floor. But I'd forgotten about the pack, which is the abuse case the original decision was intending to prevent. Still thinking ... how bad would it be to let stuff recharge in the pack?

How is it abuse for items to recharge in the pack? I remain utterly confused about why one recharge is allowed and another is not.

[Timo Pietilä]

How is it abuse for items to recharge in the pack? I remain utterly confused about why one recharge is allowed and another is not.

It is a change in how swaps work. You can use Taratol as rod of speed, or Celeborn as rod of banishment, or Palantir as rod of clairvoyance if you allow them to be charged at the pack.

I would like to have it opposite way around so that only rods recharge everywhere, everything else needs to be worn to be charged. I would also like to see effects of wearables scale with the caster level as they apparently use caster somehow to charge themselves.

[d_m]

I think everything should recharge all the time no matter where it is.

The only "benefit" of being forced to wear the item to recharge it is that it makes swaps with activations more useless. I don't think this is interesting or worth keeping.

[Timo Pietilä]

I think everything should recharge all the time no matter where it is.

The only "benefit" of being forced to wear the item to recharge it is that it makes swaps with activations more useless. I don't think this is interesting or worth keeping.

I find it a interesting challenge to be forced to use the item you use for activation before it charges back. I do this with Palantir, Taratol and Tulkas, and if you allow the charging in pack probably also with Celeborn, Colluin, Eonwe, Evenstar, Holhenneth, Thingol, Eriril, Arkenstone/Phial/Elendil depending what other things I have.

It changes things. Really.

[Magnate]

It is a change in how swaps work. You can use Taratol as rod of speed, or Celeborn as rod of banishment, or Palantir as rod of clairvoyance if you allow them to be charged at the pack.

I would like to have it opposite way around so that only rods recharge everywhere, everything else needs to be worn to be charged.

This is exactly how it works now. Both Eddie and d_m support my original position, but I'm now wavering. Can you say a bit more about why the swaps scenario you describe above is a bad thing? It seems quite interesting to me.

I would also like to see effects of wearables scale with the caster level as they apparently use caster somehow to charge themselves.

Do you mean the outputs, like damage or detection radius or whatever? Or do you mean that recharge times should decrease with wearer level??

[Timo Pietilä]

This is exactly how it works now. Both Eddie and d_m support my original position, but I'm now wavering. Can you say a bit more about why the swaps scenario you describe above is a bad thing? It seems quite interesting to me.

It changes things too much. Palantir becomes rod of clairvoyance, Taratol and Tulkas rods of speed, Celeborn rod of banishment etc.

Do you mean the outputs, like damage or detection radius or whatever? Or do you mean that recharge times should decrease with wearer level??

Outputs. Sleep gets stronger, bolts, beams, balls and LoS -damage increases with level and so on. Of course I have no objection of reducing the recharge times as well

[buzzkill]

The ring of delving. It should need to be worn to be recharged else it is just a rod of stone to mud. I really like these rings but never wear them full time. I activate it, wait for it to recharge, then put it in my pack. If it recharges in the pack, it serves no purpose as a ring.

My assumption has always been that wearable items need to be worn, and rods need to be in the pack in order to recharge. If seems odd to me that an item would recharge while on while lying the ground, Angband itself forbids it. I vote in favor of needing to wield (or be in possession of) an item in order for it to recharge. Maybe it could charge at a much slower rate, 1/10, if in the pack (weldable) or on the ground (any).

Maybe we need to tackle the question of how do items recharge?

[fizzix]

It changes things too much. Palantir becomes rod of clairvoyance, Taratol and Tulkas rods of speed, Celeborn rod of banishment etc.

I don't think this is all that bad. The only one that's really advantageous to having it charge in the pack is the palantir.

[Magnate]

The ring of delving. It should need to be worn to be recharged else it is just a rod of stone to mud. I really like these rings but never wear them full time. I activate it, wait for it to recharge, then put it in my pack. If it recharges in the pack, it serves no purpose as a ring.

My assumption has always been that wearable items need to be worn, and rods need to be in the pack in order to recharge. If seems odd to me that an item would recharge while on while lying the ground, Angband itself forbids it. I vote in favor of needing to wield (or be in possession of) an item in order for it to recharge. Maybe it could charge at a much slower rate, 1/10, if in the pack (weldable) or on the ground (any).

Maybe we need to tackle the question of how do items recharge?

Ok, you've given me another thought.

Eddie, d_m: instead of stuff recharging everywhere, how about ONLY in the player's possession? So rods will no longer recharge on the ground but only in the pack. That still leaves the question of whether activatable wearables recharge in the pack or only while worn ...

[PowerDiver]

I don't think this is all that bad. The only one that's really advantageous to having it charge in the pack is the palantir.

That's funny. I would have said the Palantir is the one that doesn't matter.

With the Palantir, you use it once per level and when you have cleared the level you put it on and rest before descending to the next level. It makes little difference unless you are in a game turncount competition.

Something like Taratol or Tulkas that you might want to use multiple times per level seems much more relevant. It doesn't bother me that these would be like rods of speed, and in fact I think it would be an improvement, but at least I can see merit in the opposing view.