Recharging

[PowerDiver]

Ok, you've given me another thought.

Eddie, d_m: instead of stuff recharging everywhere, how about ONLY in the player's possession? So rods will no longer recharge on the ground but only in the pack. That still leaves the question of whether activatable wearables recharge in the pack or only while worn ...

That seems wrong to me. If you want to differentiate wielded vs nonwielded, I disagree but I see the point. However, the backpack is equivalent to the ground in all cases except elemental damage.

[Timo Pietilä]

I don't think this is all that bad. The only one that's really advantageous to having it charge in the pack is the palantir.

Tulkas at least would become a way more powerful with this change for paladins, priests and warriors. Same with Taratol. Palantir changes a lot.

OTOH I'm against Palantir being into game as a lightsource in first place, it is not a lightsource, that's like using your GPS-locator screen as light source. Arkenstone should be enough deep down and it does not become a swap-item even with this change (with clairvoyance activation). If we want a Palantir in the game it should be a artifact rod, activate and recharge from/at pack with drawback of aggravating every single monster in LoS like scroll of aggravate monster.

BTW I think we need to change Arkenstone activation. It is currently only artifact lightsource that doesn't reveal dungeon structure. It's activation is pretty useless as it is now. Detection+magic mapping would be better instead, or clairvoyance like it used to have.

[fizzix]

That's funny. I would have said the Palantir is the one that doesn't matter.

With the Palantir, you use it once per level and when you have cleared the level you put it on and rest before descending to the next level. It makes little difference unless you are in a game turncount competition.

Something like Taratol or Tulkas that you might want to use multiple times per level seems much more relevant. It doesn't bother me that these would be like rods of speed, and in fact I think it would be an improvement, but at least I can see merit in the opposing view.

Palantir mainly because of aggravation, but it's a minor point. At the very least I consider aggravating the monsters around you to be on par with the chance of spawning more monsters because you rested and waited for your ring to recharge before removing it.

Nevertheless, I still think having artifacts recharge in the pack or home would be nice.

[Timo Pietilä]

Palantir mainly because of aggravation, but it's a minor point. At the very least I consider aggravating the monsters around you to be on par with the chance of spawning more monsters because you rested and waited for your ring to recharge before removing it.

Nevertheless, I still think having artifacts recharge in the pack or home would be nice.

"nice" is something that should not be used to rationalize game flow. It makes things simplier, but price for that is that it removes one of the things player needs to consider and do, making game more dull and easier. This is one of those changes that moves Angband closer to "start game, press and hold enter and win it". You don't need to think about wearing a inferior equipment and whether or not it is worth for benefit for activation. It just becomes consideration "do I need the activation" instead.

[fizzix]

"nice" is something that should not be used to rationalize game flow. It makes things simplier, but price for that is that it removes one of the things player needs to consider and do, making game more dull and easier. This is one of those changes that moves Angband closer to "start game, press and hold enter and win it". You don't need to think about wearing a inferior equipment and whether or not it is worth for benefit for activation. It just becomes consideration "do I need the activation" instead.

I disagree entirely, mostly because there's relatively no penalty to waiting until your item recharges. So in reality, what this does is remove the tedium of resting until recharge before removing the item.

[Magnate]

Ok, how about this solution then: not only do items recharge in the pack, but they also aggravate while in the pack ....?

MWA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

[Adley]

Ok, how about this solution then: not only do items recharge in the pack, but they also aggravate while in the pack ....?

MWA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

Completely bad. Imagine finding one of the aggravating artifacts (Umbar?) and having problems till you recall? meh...

[Timo Pietilä]

I disagree entirely, mostly because there's relatively no penalty to waiting until your item recharges. So in reality, what this does is remove the tedium of resting until recharge before removing the item.

If you rest then it is your choice, and you can choose otherwise. Do you use items that require waiting? If yes, then this change would be just removing that tedium, but if not then it is big change in gameplay. I don't wait. I use only swaps that I can actually use while adventuring.

[fizzix]

If you rest then it is your choice, and you can choose otherwise. Do you use items that require waiting? If yes, then this change would be just removing that tedium, but if not then it is big change in gameplay. I don't wait. I use only swaps that I can actually use while adventuring.

I do the same as you. The result is that I don't bother carrying artifacts that I would use as swaps for activations. This would change that, and, IMO give more options as to what to bring in my inventory, not less. Right now, what to carry, and what to use the home spaces for, is the major decision making of V.

[Timo Pietilä]

I do the same as you. The result is that I don't bother carrying artifacts that I would use as swaps for activations. This would change that, and, IMO give more options as to what to bring in my inventory, not less. Right now, what to carry, and what to use the home spaces for, is the major decision making of V.

I OTOH couldn't care less about inventory management (with exception of arrows as ranger, but quiver removed that). You are basically saying that you want increase the tedium of inventory management by adding more items there? That doesn't sound very solid argument.

I carry Taratol and Tulkas for activations and several other items as resistance-swaps. I have used Celeborn and Eonwe as activation swap as well if my other gear allows me to play with Celeborn. I sometimes also use healing-artifacts like Elessar and Crown of Gondor as activation swaps, but they are so good that they are usually the primary item anyway (like Eonwe).

[fizzix]

I OTOH couldn't care less about inventory management (with exception of arrows as ranger, but quiver removed that). You are basically saying that you want increase the tedium of inventory management by adding more items there? That doesn't sound very solid argument.

What I mean is that inventory management provides most of the interesting decisions of the game. So having more decisions to make in this regard, adds a bit to the interest. It's a very small change though, as you note, there are only about 5 artifacts you'd carry for the activation.

[Timo Pietilä]

What I mean is that inventory management provides most of the interesting decisions of the game. So having more decisions to make in this regard, adds a bit to the interest. It's a very small change though, as you note, there are only about 5 artifacts you'd carry for the activation.

Without thinking much I count seven (both banishments, 2 haste, 2 healing, 1 resistance), but at least three of those are usually the main equipment that is always on anyways. Then there is one recharging and one sleep that could be useful, especially that recharging one. Maybe also one detection, but that starts to be in borderline if it would actually be used like that ever even with this proposed change.

[ewert]

I'm messing around with these change ideas, and thinking:

If recharge in inventory is allowed, make it the old "outside of time bubble"
Change recharge for worn items to be on "x turns nevermind the speed"
Allow activation from inventory?

[Derakon]

I think every item should recharge at a consistent rate. If you're going to differentiate between worn and not-worn, then it should be by "charges" and "doesn't charge", not by "charges" and "charges slowly".

I'd also rather see everything recharge in player turns instead of game turns, personally.

[Adley]

I'd also rather see everything recharge in player turns instead of game turns, personally.

+1
I mean, if you carry objects, they got the same speed as you, no?