Squelch bug

[ewert]

I can pre-squelch item kinds not identified, and the unidentified is hide-squelched. Hide-Squelch should need to check that object is id'd before it squelches, yes?

[PowerDiver]

I can pre-squelch item kinds not identified, and the unidentified is hide-squelched. Hide-Squelch should need to check that object is id'd before it squelches, yes?

You need to be more specific. If you squelch blue potions, then you shouldn't see blue potions. If you squelch non-splendid armor, then wearing without ID is enough. If you squelch con rings, you don't need to know the pval to squelch.

There is a known bug pertaining to DSMs where squelch means any visible squelched one must be an artifact.

If you squelch !CCW and then unaware blue potions of CCW go away, and you did not specify to squelch blue potions, that is a problem.

[ewert]

Sorry, yeah, the last one, that is what I meant by the vague "item kinds not identified". Squelched some stuff at one point from squelch menu (not when coming across an item like I usually do). Then at one point wanted to check the resist of a random resist item that got squelched, and took off hide-squelch from options, and wham, noticed there were un-id'd flavors of wands in the level. So the game had squelched something my char did not yet know was a squelchable item.

[PowerDiver]

Sorry, yeah, the last one, that is what I meant by the vague "item kinds not identified". Squelched some stuff at one point from squelch menu (not when coming across an item like I usually do). Then at one point wanted to check the resist of a random resist item that got squelched, and took off hide-squelch from options, and wham, noticed there were un-id'd flavors of wands in the level. So the game had squelched something my char did not yet know was a squelchable item.

What version are you playing? Did you squelch through squelch menus or object knowledge interface?

This has been fixed a few times.

Do you ever save options to prf files? That leads to all sorts of bad squelch behavior.

[ewert]

r2024, squelch menu squelching

However this new char has seen some also, and have not pre-squelched spesific item types, so either "bad" rings/amulets are squelched pre-id of flavor type, or it is a visual problem where it squelches before changing the name into the known type and it somehow doesn't go through to having the visual name changed to the known (squelched) type? Dunno.

Yeah I use .prf files a lot (PLAYER.prf, (classname).prf), but squelch isn't carried in them as far as I can see, only in the save file and only for the character?

[PowerDiver]

r2024, squelch menu squelching

However this new char has seen some also, and have not pre-squelched spesific item types, so either "bad" rings/amulets are squelched pre-id of flavor type, or it is a visual problem where it squelches before changing the name into the known type and it somehow doesn't go through to having the visual name changed to the known (squelched) type? Dunno.

Yeah I use .prf files a lot (PLAYER.prf, (classname).prf), but squelch isn't carried in them as far as I can see, only in the save file and only for the character?

If it happens again, or you can repeat it, check immediately in the squelch menus to see if the flavor or type is squelched. It is possible some prf files is setting something you think was never set.

The most likely other possibility is a bug with squelch_worthless. Do you have that option set?

[Magnate]

There is a known bug pertaining to DSMs where squelch means any visible squelched one must be an artifact.

This is fixed in r2026 - DSM is now done by the quality squelch menu, like any other body armour. The only difference is that there are no {average} DSMs, only good / ego / artifact.

[PowerDiver]

This is fixed in r2026 - DSM is now done by the quality squelch menu, like any other body armour. The only difference is that there are no {average} DSMs, only good / ego / artifact.

That seems problematic. You'd never want to squelch power DSM, even if it could be {bad} in the future.

I guess the solution is to squelch good DSM and go and autoinscribe stuff with !k. This trick may be sufficiently necessary that it should go in the help files.

[Magnate]

That seems problematic. You'd never want to squelch power DSM, even if it could be {bad} in the future.

I guess the solution is to squelch good DSM and go and autoinscribe stuff with !k. This trick may be sufficiently necessary that it should go in the help files.

Exactly. Now that it's quality squelch not sval squelch, you will see the PDSM and will know to either inscribe it or set your body armour squelching to NONE.

The real solution, of course, is not to base quality squelch on ego-ness at all, but on actual item utility. So instead of "excellent with no high resists" it should simply be "no high resists" - that would allow high DSMs to remain unsquelched, as they have high resists.

[PowerDiver]

The real solution, of course, is not to base quality squelch on ego-ness at all, but on actual item utility. So instead of "excellent with no high resists" it should simply be "no high resists" - that would allow high DSMs to remain unsquelched, as they have high resists.

You still want to squelch gold and pseudo DSM despite high resists. This change may be necessary, but it is a step backwards.

[Magnate]

You still want to squelch gold and pseudo DSM despite high resists. This change may be necessary, but it is a step backwards.

Not if they're ego, you don't ...

[PowerDiver]

Not if they're ego, you don't ...

I agree it is necessary if they can be egos as good or better than elvenkind. However, forcing people to squelch good and then go around autoinscribing !k and later removing the autoinscription for the next game is sufficiently clunky to be a step backward IMO.

[Magnate]

I agree it is necessary if they can be egos as good or better than elvenkind. However, forcing people to squelch good and then go around autoinscribing !k and later removing the autoinscription for the next game is sufficiently clunky to be a step backward IMO.

It's certainly no worse than squelching by sval and thereby making artifacts obvious, but I agree that neither is perfect.

It occurs to me that the preponderance of Dwarven DSM may be because there are only three ego types available on certain armours (red, blue, green, black, white). If it insists on picking one, it will end up with Dwarven, Stealth or Speed. I had assumed that if it didn't get any of the three with rarity rolls, it would fall back to a good item. This is how artifact generation works: if you don' t get any of the available artifacts, it falls back to an ego item. Perhaps ego generation doesn't work the same way?

Off to check the code (and implement your starting gold idea, with Derakon's modification of being debited for starting kit).

[Pete Mack]

I don't understand the "stealth" DSM armor. It's not nearly as good as a similar elvenkind, so why bother?

Dwarven DSM is fantastic, on the other hand, especially in a randart game where there's no guaranteed drop like Caspannion.

[PowerDiver]

It's certainly no worse than squelching by sval and thereby making artifacts obvious, but I agree that neither is perfect.

I just got DSM of permanence. Once you go that crazy, you cannot afford to squelch much, so maybe it is all moot.