Warrior buffing suggestion

[Magnate]

So from what I'm hearing:

* A +1% AC per level (or per every other level) for warriors might help them survive in melee range a bit
* Some form of armor-based mitigation for non-physical attacks would increase the emphasis on AC, which again warriors would be more suited to boosting
* Moving to fractional blows will certainly help them deal with packs (per my experience in games that have fractional blows)
* Blankets of inventory protection would be helpful but cost a precious-to-warriors slot; NPP-style services to immunize your pack would also help but would effectively negate inventory damage for everyone past the mid-late game (unless I misunderstand how they work).

The fact that resistances can now reduce the chance of inventory damage helps a bit, but it's no panacea. If you have a monster hitting you with a burning melee attack that deals less than 30 damage after resistances, then that's a 1% chance for destruction for every vulnerable item in your inventory, per hit. Maybe it was a 2% chance before the change, but I doubt the hit dealt more than 60 damage (the cutoff for 3%). Let's say you suffer four hits before you manage to kill the monster. That's a combined 3.5% chance for each vulnerable item in your inventory to be destroyed; may not sound high, but it's high enough that you'll still want to ditch your staffs and important scrolls beforehand -- or use archery.

Do we want to just give warriors more inventory slots than the other classes get?

I don't think so - I think we're inching towards a better world without that, though I don't think we'll go all the way to store services. (I may be wrong, but I am so anti-shopping that I don't put much thought into it.) A blanket of protection takes up less inv space than has been freed up by the quiver, so it's a net better deal than 3.1.1 ...

Another alternative to blankets is to provide an effect for a *temporary* pack immunity. This could be a mid-level wand/staff/rod (which of course takes a slot) but also available as an activation on artifacts (or indeed an amulet of weaponmastery, or a ring of slaying, etc.).

[ewert]

How about just adding the inventory protection to temporary resist effects?

... still would need that temp resist, but ... =)

[Magnate]

How about just adding the inventory protection to temporary resist effects?

... still would need that temp resist, but ... =)

Temporary resistance already offers partial protection against damage from that element, though I didn't read Derakon's patch closely so I'm not sure if double resistance makes a difference.

No, I'm talking about temporary pack immunity (from all forms of damage) as a separate effect.

[d_m]

How about just adding the inventory protection to temporary resist effects?

... still would need that temp resist, but ... =)

That actually benefits the warrior *least* of all the classes!

[Derakon]

Temporary resistance already offers partial protection against damage from that element, though I didn't read Derakon's patch closely so I'm not sure if double resistance makes a difference.

No, I'm talking about temporary pack immunity (from all forms of damage) as a separate effect.

The old behavior for pack damage is to base the percentage chance of an item being destroyed on the pre-resistance damage. <30 = 1% per item; 30-60 = 2% per item, >60 = 3% per item. All I did was change that to be post-resistance. So resistances are helpful so long as they take you below one of those breakpoints.

It would be a straightforward change to base percentage chance of destruction solely on what resists you have (no resist = 3%, single resist = 2%, double resist = 1%, say), but that wouldn't actually change melee inventory damage much beyond penalizing people for not having resists at all; most melee elemental hits are fairly light on the damage scale.

[d_m]

Maybe rather than a step function (1-3%) we should make this fractional (like tenths of a percent or hundredths) and then let it scale smoothly with damage to eliminate the break points.

This would probably make smaller breathers weaker because they would approach 0%, although I would probably code it to make large damage go above 3% just because everyone complains about how easy V is now

[Derakon]

Actually, how about making inventory damage depend on what fraction of your total hitpoints in damage you took? So a giant salamander that deals 8 damage with its fire breath would destroy 15% of the vulnerable inventory of a character with only 24 hitpoints, but when resisted (down to 2 damage) by a character with 200 hitpoints, it would only destroy .5% of the inventory. But if that character then got nailed by a mature red dragon's breath (48 damage single-resisted), they'd lose ~12.5% of their inventory...

Numbers are made up and on a linear scale; obviously this would need to be tweaked a bit. But it always bugged me that monsters that were utterly inconsequential damage-wise could still be a major annoyance because of inventory damage. Dragon bats, I'm looking at you.

[nullfame]

Blankets of inventory protection would be helpful but cost a precious-to-warriors slot

You could make it a cloak.

IMO this should be very heavy to dissuade casters from carrying it to drop 4 books. I'm thinking the 12-24 lb range. In that case maybe "blanket" isn't the right word...

[PowerDiver]

Actually, how about making inventory damage depend on what fraction of your total hitpoints in damage you took?

That is still too much. The difference is that spellcasters can replace their books trivially in town. If you want the warrior to melee electrifiers, he probably has to be able to replace his -dTraps and -telOther[] as easily in town as the spellcaster can replace MB1 or MB4. However, that ruins a different part of the game.

[ewert]

Actually, that cloak idea got me thinking:

If it is a WORN slot (thus does not effect inventory slots), a 12-24lb range item for inventory protection, make it a deepish lvl rare drop like dlvl60 native ... that'd be nice I think. I agree it should definitely be quite heavy. Actually one could name the slot "backpack" or whatever, and have it be a new item slot. Backpacks of Elemental Protection. Backpacks of Holding (-5-20% weight). Backpacks of Stasis (no charge draining) ...

Whoopee!

[Rizwan]

Actually, that cloak idea got me thinking:

If it is a WORN slot (thus does not effect inventory slots), a 12-24lb range item for inventory protection, make it a deepish lvl rare drop like dlvl60 native ... that'd be nice I think. I agree it should definitely be quite heavy. Actually one could name the slot "backpack" or whatever, and have it be a new item slot. Backpacks of Elemental Protection. Backpacks of Holding (-5-20% weight). Backpacks of Stasis (no charge draining) ...

Whoopee!

Or maybe call it a Lead Shield of Backpack Protection. That would explain its weight

[ewert]

Well the other ego backpacks would of course be lighter, but the elemental protection that is of course made of lead so it weights a ton.

[fyonn]

If it is a WORN slot (thus does not effect inventory slots)

surely, if we decide that a backpack is a worn item, then taking off the backpack will effectively remove all inventory slots? no backpack, no place to put things? worn items only. and would a normal canvas backpack be vulnerable to attack, what if it's destroyed, does all ones inventory fall onto the floor?

not saying it's a bad idea, it just needs thinking through.

fresh adventurers could start with a backpack for free, and then upgrade their backpack as they go along. this might bring along the possibility of different sized inventories (satchel vs full on backpack), different material, ethereal ones that weigh nothing but can only hold so much, ones made of heavy, fireproof fabric, a metal armoured one etc.

it's an interesting idea, but a complex one I think...

dave

[ewert]

Erm, we are talking of a game where you can carry lances, multiple suits of full body armor etc., so lets just say it is nitpicking to start thinking about it being "complex" to do a new equipment slot for backpacks ...

Initial, no ego backpack

m: (backpack) 0lb.

As in, the default of the slot is (backpack), not (nothing), and is considered to be free weight as in 0lb.

Wear something, and it changes to:
m: Bag of Holding (-5%) 1lb.
or
m: Canvas of Elemental Protection 15lb.

Etc. Just because something is worn there does not mean the regular backpack ceases to exist, so having a canvas there does not mean you can't carry anything ...

[Derakon]

I could go with the backpack approach. Some possible base types:

* Canvas (starting pack, 1 pound)
* Waxed leather (15 pounds, protects contents from acid)
* Ethereal (weightless)
* Large (20 pounds, +1 slot)

Some possible egos that could be attached to the basic types:

* Protection from <insert basic element>
* Protection from Elements
* Holding (reduces weight of contents by 1-10%)
* Extra Capacity (+1-2 extra slots)

(So a Large Backback of Extra Capacity could theoretically add 3 more slots, taking you all the way to 'z')

Backpacks would not be un-wieldable and cannot be damaged/destroyed when equipped. When you find a new backpack you can wield it to replace your old one; that's the only way to change what is in the slot. Alternately we could go with (canvas backpack) similar to ewert's suggestion, though IMO it should have a small amount of weight to it.

I don't think backpacks should ever provide any of the standard abilities -- elemental resistances, stat boosts, etc. They're for holding equipment, nothing more. If we start extending the other abilities to them then every character has suddenly gotten another booster equipment slot and the game gets a lot easier.

Interactions between a backpack and the quiver would have to be sussed out beforehand.