Trolls and regen

[cinereaste]

A better question is why keep hunger at all?

OK, without it being a serious, of even a novel threat, why have it. I was trying to come up with a way to make hunger interesting. If it's going to be neither interesting or threatening, then just eliminate it from the game. Change the green glutton ghost into something else and be done with it. I wasn't even considering ironman when formulating this idea, and I stand by it (actual multiplier subject to tweaking).

I agree with this. It seems that the food mechanic isn't adding anything interesting to the gameplay for most players as it stands now. To me, it looks mainly like a relic from Angband's ancestors, a connection to the original Rogue.

Right now hunger is a minor annoyance in two spots, right? In the early levels and at the end, when you need to make sure you don't gorge yourself while quaffing !CCW when fighting Morgoth. It seems tedious. Would anyone feel that removing the hunger mechanic negatively impacts the gaming experience?

[zaimoni]

Really?????

For V3.0.9-

/* Searching or Resting */
	if (p_ptr->searching || p_ptr->resting)
	{
		regen_amount *= 2;
	}

I haven't checked whether this has changed recently.

[buzzkill]

No, you do not get the same effect.

Resting regenerates hp/mana about 2x faster than any of the above. The main quirk is that you use up 1 player turn more than the number of turns to rest that you request (assuming no interruptions).

Really?????

[zaimoni]

The problem there is that resting is simply waiting in place for several turns in a row. You can get the same effect by hitting '5' a bunch of times, or by patrolling a wall, etc.

No, you do not get the same effect.

Resting regenerates hp/mana about 2x faster than any of the above. The main quirk is that you use up 1 player turn more than the number of turns to rest that you request (assuming no interruptions).

[Derakon]

The problem there is that resting is simply waiting in place for several turns in a row. You can get the same effect by hitting '5' a bunch of times, or by patrolling a wall, etc. In order to make resting a separate meaningful action, you'd have to do something like disable or greatly reduce natural regeneration when not resting, which would have many players up in arms...

[Hariolor]

How about this:

@ must consume food in order to (R)est. Replace satisfy hunger with a Peaceful Rest spell and move it up to a more expensive book.

Resting without food causes Con damage, maybe.

I feel like this might penalize spellcasters more significantly than warriors, as warriors only need to keep HP up, and won't be resting to restore SP. But maybe that's a good thing...

[buzzkill]

Buzzkill: that'd be fine if we wanted starvation to be a serious threat. I'm not convinced we are. What does it add to the game?

A better question is why keep hunger at all?

OK, without it being a serious, of even a novel threat, why have it. I was trying to come up with a way to make hunger interesting. If it's going to be neither interesting or threatening, then just eliminate it from the game. Change the green glutton ghost into something else and be done with it. I wasn't even considering ironman when formulating this idea, and I stand by it (actual multiplier subject to tweaking).

[ewert]

Removing it would streamline the game ... Dunno though, I sometimes (heck often) forget to eat in the endgame, plowing through things so fast I think most of my chars at some point faint. Sometimes while fighting. =P Never lost a char to it so far but heh, might happen. Yes, even caster classes sometimes, until I re-learn the muscle memory to cast satisfy hunger at some key spellcasting routines like buffing/detecting/resting or something.

Of course, sometimes streamlining can take away elements of gameplay. But is hunger one of good gameplay elements? Maybe? Maybe not? Worthy a discussion of its own I think.

[Derakon]

Warriors tend to eat in town until they're full and then recall when they're hungry again so they don't really need a slot for it either.

That may be how you play, but it's not how I do. My dungeon dives are too long and my characters tend to get hungry too fast for this to be practical.

Food probably needs a bit of a rethink, but I think it would probably be difficult to make it interesting without introducing daft eating mini-games like in Nethack.

That's why I like the suggestion of just removing it outright.

[TJS]

Well thats not exactly true either. The magicky classes devote 1/(however many spells there are in a spell book) slots. So maybe if the spell was moved to a book which users normally left out they might have to carry that book just for the food spell effectively making them use up a slot.

Warriors tend to eat in town until they're full and then recall when they're hungry again so they don't really need a slot for it either.

In this case though food isn't doing what it was (presumably) designed for ie making the player move through the levels faster. Instead it means the player needs to recall to town to stock up for food and while they are there they may as well stock up on other stuff like arrows and phase door.

Food probably needs a bit of a rethink, but I think it would probably be difficult to make it interesting without introducing daft eating mini-games like in Nethack.

[Rizwan]

No, it does not. The problem is not lack of food. The problem is that a warrior devotes a slot to it, and no one else does.

If you want to keep hunger in the game, at an absolute minimum make satisfy hunger a priest-only spell. Let the mage casters enjoy the fun of devoting a slot to food just like warriors.

Well thats not exactly true either. The magicky classes devote 1/(however many spells there are in a spell book) slots. So maybe if the spell was moved to a book which users normally left out they might have to carry that book just for the food spell effectively making them use up a slot.

[fizzix]

Buzzkill: that'd be fine if we wanted starvation to be a serious threat. I'm not convinced we are. What does it add to the game?

It adds to ironman warrior games. That's about it. With a town, starvation is just an annoyance.

[Derakon]

Buzzkill: that'd be fine if we wanted starvation to be a serious threat. I'm not convinced we are. What does it add to the game?

[buzzkill]

4x food consumption rates. Eliminate (or nerf) the spell. Don't guarantee food will be sold in town. Don't allow it to be stored in the home (except for mushrooms).

[PowerDiver]

How about adding a rod of satiation?
It would solve all your problems.

No, it does not. The problem is not lack of food. The problem is that a warrior devotes a slot to it, and no one else does.

If you want to keep hunger in the game, at an absolute minimum make satisfy hunger a priest-only spell. Let the mage casters enjoy the fun of devoting a slot to food just like warriors.