Mage at 40 - What do I need to go deeper?

[Nameless]

This is by far the best mage I've run thus far. I'm covered on nearly every resist I can scrounge, but I've had a distinct lack of stat gain potions. In particular, INT/CON/STR are all lower than I'd expected for my depth. (I've spent some time scumming the Black Market for potions when my cash gets too obscene, but that's not helped much, as the RNG is still having a laugh at my expense even with that... )

I'm at 2000' now, and I'm hesitating to go deeper, for fear that my middling level/HP/SP are going to provide an obstacle below this point.

Is there any advice the more experienced delvers might wish to offer on the subject?

[Angband 3.1.2v2 Character Dump]

 Name   Nirruden                                 Self  RB  CB  EB   Best
 Sex    Male         Age            124   STR:  18/48  +1  -5  +2  18/28
 Race   High-Elf     Height          73   INT:  18/66  +3  +3  +6 18/186
 Class  Mage         Weight         208   WIS:     13  -1  +0  +4     16
 Title  Conjurer     Social  Role model   DEX:  18/43  +3  +1  +0  18/83
 HP     284/284      Maximize         Y   CON:  18/62  +1  -2  +1  18/62
 SP     236/240                           CHR:     18  +5  +1  +3  18/90

 Level               32   Armor    [41,+93]     Saving Throw         80%
 Cur Exp         405273   Fight    (+10,+8)     Stealth           Superb
 Max Exp         405273   Melee   (+23,+25)     Fighting       Excellent
 Adv Exp         460000   Shoot    (+27,+9)     Shooting       Excellent
 MaxDepth   2000' (L40)   Blows      1/turn     Disarming            74%
 Game Turns     2174404   Shots      2/turn     Magic Device         107
 Player Turns    304523   Infra       40 ft     Perception       1 in 16
 Active Turns     81095   Speed           7     Searching            19%
 Gold            102621   Burden  238.2 lbs

 You are the only child of a Vanyarin King.  You have light green eyes,
 straight black hair, and a fair complexion.



rAcid:......+.+.... rConf:......+..+...
rElec:......+.+.... Sound:......+......
rFire:+.....+.+.... Shard:.............
rCold:......+.+.... Nexus:......++...+.
rPois:+............ Nethr:.............
rFear:............. Chaos:.............
rLite:........+.+.+ Disen:.............
rDark:........+.... S.Dig:+............
rBlnd:........+.... Feath:...........+.

Light:..........+.. Aggrv:.............
Regen:+............ Stea.:.......+.....
  ESP:............. Sear.:.............
Invis:............+ Infra:............+
FrAct:+.........+.. Tunn.:.............
HLife:............. Speed:..+....+.....
ImpHP:............. Blows:.............
ImpSP:............. Shots:.+...........
 Fear:............. Might:.............


  [Character Equipment]

a) The Zweihander 'Gurthang' (3d6) (+13,+17) (+2)
     +2 strength.
     *Slays* dragons.
     Branded with flames, venom.
     Provides resistance to fire, poison.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Slows your metabolism.  Speeds regeneration.  Prevents paralysis.  
     
     
     Combat info:
     1 blow/round.
     With an additional 6 strength and 0 dex you would get 2 blows
     With an additional 0 strength and 2 dex you would get 2 blows
     Average damage/hit: 61.5 vs. creatures not resistant to fire, 61.5
     vs. creatures not resistant to poison, 84.6 vs. dragons, and 38.4
     vs. others.
     
b) a Heavy Crossbow of Extra Shots (x4) (+17,+9) (+1)
     +1 shooting speed.
     
c) a Ring of Speed (+8)
     +8 speed.
     
d) a Ring of Intelligence (+6)
     +6 intelligence.
     Sustains intelligence.
     
e) an Amulet of Wisdom (+1)
     +1 wisdom.
     Sustains wisdom.
     
f) The Phial of Galadriel
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
     When activated, it lights up the surrounding area, hurting light-s
     ensitive creatures.
     Takes 18 to 34 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 98.1%
     
     Radius 3 light.
g) The Full Plate Armour of Isildur [26,+25] (+1)
     +1 constitution.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, confusion, 
     sound, nexus.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
h) The Cloak 'Colannon' [1,+13] (+3)
     +3 stealth, speed.
     Provides resistance to nexus.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
     When activated, it teleports you randomly up to 100 squares away.
     Takes 76 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 98.1%
     
i) The Leather Shield of Celegorm [4,+20]
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, light, dark, 
     blindness.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
j) The Metal Cap of Thengel [3,+12] (+3)
     +3 wisdom, charisma.
     Provides resistance to confusion.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
k) The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cammithrim' (+5,+5) [1,+10]
     Provides resistance to light.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Sustains constitution.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     
     When aimed, it fires a magic missile with damage 3d4.
     Takes 3 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 97.8%
     
     Radius 1 light.
l) a Pair of Steel Shod Boots of Stability [6,+9]
     Provides resistance to nexus.
     Feather Falling.  
     


  [Character Quiver]

n) 27 Bolts (1d5) (+7,+4)
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 140 feet away.
     Average damage/hit: 65.2.
     25% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
o) (nothing)
p) (nothing)
q) (nothing)
r) (nothing)
s) (nothing)
t) (nothing)
u) (nothing)
v) (nothing)
w) (nothing)


  [Character Inventory]

a) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] {@m1!d!x!k}
b) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks] {@m2!d!x!k}
c) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions] {@m3!d!x!k}
d) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Sorcery and Evocations] {@m4!d!x!k}
e) a Book of Magic Spells [Resistances of Scarabtarices] {@m5!d!x!k}
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
f) 26 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
     
g) 8 Scrolls of Teleportation
h) 5 Scrolls of Word of Recall
i) 3 Rods of Probing
j) a Rod of Illumination
k) a Wand of Lightning Balls (9 charges)
     Cannot be harmed by electricity.
     
l) 2 Wands of Sleep Monster (28 charges)
     
m) a Wand of Teleport Other (8 charges)
     
n) a Ring of Soulkeeping
     Sustains strength, intelligence, wisdom.
     
o) an Amulet of Searching (+4)
     +20% to searching.
     
p) Metal Scale Mail (-2) [12,+2]
q) The Soft Leather Armour 'Hithlomir' [4,+20] (+4)
     +4 stealth.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, dark, nether.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
r) a Set of Alchemist's Gloves of Power (+1,+4) [0,+7] (+5)
     +5 strength.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
s) a Pair of Steel Shod Boots of Free Action [6,+5]
     Prevents paralysis.  
     
t) a Halberd of *Slay Dragon* (3d5) (+4,+4) (+1)
     +1 constitution.
     *Slays* dragons.
     Provides resistance to fear.
     
     Combat info:
     1 blow/round.
     With an additional 0 strength and 2 dex you would get 2 blows
     Average damage/hit: 60 vs. dragons, and 21.2 vs. others.
     
u) a Lucerne Hammer (2d5)
     You do not know the full extent of this item's powers.
     
     Combat info:
     1 blow/round.
     With an additional 4 strength and 0 dex you would get 2 blows
     With an additional 0 strength and 2 dex you would get 2 blows
     Average damage/hit: 13.4.
     
v) a Light Crossbow of Extra Might (x4) (+8,+14) (+1)
     +1 shooting power.
     


  [Home Inventory]

a) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] {@m1!d!x!k}
b) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks] {@m2!d!x!k}
c) 5 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions] {@m3!d!x!k}
d) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Sorcery and Evocations] {@m4!d!x!k}
e) 99 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
     
f) 4 Potions of Healing
     
g) 2 Potions of Restore Mana
h) 6 Potions of Enlightenment
i) 15 Scrolls of Teleportation
j) 15 Scrolls of Teleport Level
k) 21 Scrolls of Enchant Weapon To-Hit
l) 29 Scrolls of Enchant Weapon To-Dam
m) 23 Scrolls of Enchant Armour
n) a Scroll of *Destruction*
o) a Staff of the Magi (3 charges)
     
p) a Ring of Free Action
     Prevents paralysis.  
     
q) a Jewel Encrusted Crown of Might [0,+4] (+2)
     +2 strength, dexterity, constitution.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Sustains strength, dexterity, constitution.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     
r) The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cambeleg' (+8,+8) [1,+15] (+2)
     +2 strength, constitution.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     
s) a Short Sword (Defender) (1d7) (+8,+5) [+4] (+1 stealth)
     +1 stealth.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Sustains charisma.
     Feather Falling.  Speeds regeneration.  Prevents paralysis.  
     Grants the ability to see invisible things.  
     
     Combat info:
     1 blow/round.
     With an additional 2 strength and 0 dex you would get 2 blows
     With an additional 0 strength and 2 dex you would get 2 blows
     Average damage/hit: 16.5.
     
t) The Beaked Axe of Theoden (2d6) (+8,+10) (+3)
     +3 wisdom, constitution.
     Slays dragons.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Slows your metabolism.  Grants telepathy.  
     
     When aimed, it drains up to 120 hit points of life from a target c
     reature.
     Takes 68 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 97.1%
     
     Combat info:
     1 blow/round.
     With an additional 7 strength and 0 dex you would get 2 blows
     With an additional 0 strength and 2 dex you would get 2 blows
     Average damage/hit: 40.6 vs. dragons, and 25.5 vs. others.
     
u) 35 Bolts (1d5) (+7,+4)
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 140 feet away.
     Average damage/hit: 65.2.
     25% chance of breaking upon contact.
     


============================================================
                   CHAR.
|   TURN  | DEPTH |LEVEL| EVENT
============================================================
         1      0'    1   Began the quest to destroy Morgoth.
      2821      0'    1   Killed Farmer Maggot
      6995     50'    2   Reached level 2
     12231    100'    3   Reached level 3
     17688    100'    4   Reached level 4
     31234    100'    4   Killed Fang, Farmer Maggot's dog
     35144    100'    4   Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's dog
     38224    100'    5   Reached level 5
     54508    100'    6   Reached level 6
     80903    300'    7   Reached level 7
     89546    300'    8   Reached level 8
    112163    350'    9   Reached level 9
    274253    350'   10   Reached level 10
    293987    400'   11   Reached level 11
    323462    400'   12   Reached level 12
    369065    400'   13   Reached level 13
    415740    450'   14   Reached level 14
    459695    450'   14   Killed Bullroarer the Hobbit
    459720    450'   14   Found The Cloak 'Colannon'
    459734    450'   14   Found The Phial of Galadriel
    466681    500'   15   Reached level 15
    533820    500'   16   Reached level 16
    538947    500'   16   Killed Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman
    586059    550'   16   Killed Mughash the Kobold Lord
    613798    550'   17   Reached level 17
    618425    600'   17   Killed Orfax, Son of Boldor
    670427    600'   18   Reached level 18
    673162    600'   18   Killed Lagduf, the Snaga
    735587    750'   19   Reached level 19
    753511    750'   19   Killed Ufthak of Cirith Ungol
    787370    800'   20   Reached level 20
    797394    850'   20   Killed Brodda, the Easterling
    828432      0'   21   Reached level 21
    904862    950'   22   Reached level 22
    924015    950'   23   Reached level 23
    932874    950'   23   Killed Nar, the Dwarf
    979796   1100'   24   Reached level 24
   1008556   1150'   25   Reached level 25
   1022526   1200'   25   Killed Ibun, Son of Mim
   1031823   1200'   25   Found The Metal Cap of Thengel
   1034497   1200'   25   Killed Bolg, Son of Azog
   1059003   1250'   25   Killed Gorbag, the Orc Captain
   1059713   1250'   25   Found The Soft Leather Armour 'Hithlomir'
   1074990   1400'   26   Reached level 26
   1079254   1400'   26   Killed Shagrat, the Orc Captain
   1104560   1500'   26   Found The Leather Shield of Celegorm
   1114758   1600'   26   Killed Angamaite of Umbar
   1115258   1600'   26   Found The Dagger 'Dethanc' (LOST)
   1126780   1750'   27   Reached level 27
   1130331   1750'   27   Killed Grishnakh, the Hill Orc
   1133471   1750'   27   Killed Lugdush, the Uruk
   1167207   1750'   28   Reached level 28
   1195790   1750'   29   Reached level 29
   1199315   1750'   29   Killed Tom the Stone Troll
   1199571   1750'   29   Found The Set of Gauntlets 'Paurhach' (LOST)
   1226680   1750'   29   Killed Beorn, the Shape-Changer
   1233190   1750'   29   Found The Lance of Eorlingas (LOST)
   1246389   1750'   30   Reached level 30
   1369691   1800'   30   Killed Azog, King of the Uruk-Hai
   1376760   1800'   30   Killed Ulfast, Son of Ulfang
   1378469   1800'   31   Reached level 31
   1389247   1800'   31   Found The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cammithrim'
   1390647   1800'   31   Killed Lokkak, the Ogre Chieftain
   1390674   1800'   31   Found The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cambeleg'
   1400670   1800'   31   Found The Dagger 'Nimthanc' (LOST)
   1501027   1800'   31   Killed Bert the Stone Troll
   1562922   1800'   31   Killed Ariel, Queen of Air
   1565939   1800'   31   Found The Zweihander 'Gurthang'
   1597009   1800'   31   Found The Broad Sword 'Glamdring' (LOST)
   1608547   1900'   31   Found The Set of Gauntlets 'Paurnen' (LOST)
   2156832   1950'   32   Reached level 32
   2158577   1950'   32   Found The Beaked Axe of Theoden
   2170932   2000'   32   Killed Mim, Betrayer of Turin
   2170965   2000'   32   Found The Full Plate Armour of Isildur


  [Options]

Maximize effect of race/class bonuses        : yes (adult_maximize)
Randomize some of the artifacts (beta)       : no  (adult_randarts)
Restrict the use of stairs/recall            : no  (adult_ironman)
Restrict the use of stores/home              : no  (adult_no_stores)
Restrict creation of artifacts               : no  (adult_no_artifacts)
Don't stack objects on the floor             : no  (adult_no_stacking)
Lose artifacts when leaving level            : no  (adult_no_preserve)
Don't generate connected stairs              : no  (adult_no_stairs)
Adult: Monsters chase current location       : yes (adult_ai_sound)
Adult: Monsters chase recent locations       : yes (adult_ai_smell)
Adult: Monsters act smarter in groups        : yes (adult_ai_packs)
Adult: Monsters learn from their mistakes    : no  (adult_ai_learn)
Adult: Monsters exploit players weaknesses   : no  (adult_ai_cheat)
Adult: Monsters behave more intelligently (broken): no  (adult_ai_smart)
Score: Peek into object creation             : no  (score_peek)
Score: Peek into monster creation            : no  (score_hear)
Score: Peek into dungeon creation            : no  (score_room)
Score: Peek into something else              : no  (score_xtra)
Score: Know complete monster info            : no  (score_know)
Score: Allow player to avoid death           : no  (score_live)

[PowerDiver]

I'd go with ESP over rPoison, always. I would not even carry Gurthang as a swap. You have the spell. Just be sure to detect monsters often to look out for drolems. Carry all of your bolts, and maybe buy another 99 boring ones from the store. Leave your boots at home. They are not doing you any good, and if nothing else it allows you to pick up another pair of boots in the dungeon to take home to sell.

[Nameless]

I'd go with ESP over rPoison, always. I would not even carry Gurthang as a swap. You have the spell. Just be sure to detect monsters often to look out for drolems. Carry all of your bolts, and maybe buy another 99 boring ones from the store. Leave your boots at home. They are not doing you any good, and if nothing else it allows you to pick up another pair of boots in the dungeon to take home to sell.

Thanks for the advice. The last two "important" drops I've gotten have been the fifth book and its temporary resists on demand (which makes the melee weapon optional if I'm careful to keep resistances running) and the Full Plate of Isildur (which makes the boots 100% superfluous, as you correctly note).

My worry with dropping permanent rPoison is that I teleport away from something and land next to something I can't see (or have a round to detect) which then breathes me to death while I'm still trying to detect it. Is this less likely than I'm worrying about?

I hadn't considered taking all the bolts with me previously, as they're heavy, but I can probably afford some loss of speed for this, thanks to the RoS and cloak. However, with the SP cost changes present in 3.1.2v2, I've found myself relying on spells far more often, with ranged weapons relegated to an early "backup" weapon and for times early on when SP ran low dealing with large packs. Are mages still as heavily dependent on ranged weapons in the new version with the changes as they were in previous versions? (I haven't actually used the bow in several levels, preferring to Phase and then continue bolting.)

[nullfame]

My worry with dropping permanent rPoison is that I teleport away from something and land next to something I can't see (or have a round to detect) which then breathes me to death

This is just me but I've all but stopped teleporting. Teleporting gets me killed. Unlike going to a new level, baddies may get a turn before you can react. And it isn't just poison breathers. "The Ethereal dragon breathes confusion. You are confused! You die." I pack the staff out of habit but prefer ?deepDecent, ?teleportLevel, or ?destruction when in danger (though I try to save ?destruction); teleport other or _destruction when things aren't going my way.

ESP v. rPoison is a personal choice. I think PowerDiver is right though. Hopefully you'll find a telepathy helmet soon and it will be a moot point. Thengel isn't doing anything for you right now with Isildur on. I'd wear the crown of might for +2 CON.

[Nameless]

This is just me but I've all but stopped teleporting. Teleporting gets me killed. Unlike going to a new level, baddies may get a turn before you can react. And it isn't just poison breathers. "The Ethereal dragon breathes confusion. You are confused! You die."

Well, I'm packing resists to literally everything I've seen so far that has a resist (exception: shards, nether, chaos) so I've reduced the big-breather worries a bit. Inertia or Force Hounds, I watch carefully, and anything with Nether bolts (like the OOD Death Knight I squashed) I watch like a hawk.

I'm not looking to dive immediately to 70, per se, but the Angband Newbie Guide refers to 1900' as someplace you hold up while you get maxxed stats, along with rConf and rBlind. I have the latter two, so I've been holding at 2000' because I'm not yet at maxxed stats. I also don't have Hold Life which TANG recommends at 2500', so there's a limit to how far I'd dive in any case.

I pack the staff out of habit but prefer ?deepDecent, ?teleportLevel, or ?destruction when in danger (though I try to save ?destruction); teleport other or _destruction when things aren't going my way.

I stopped carrying the staff as soon as I had rConf and rBlind locked up, because staves have a failure rate, and scrolls do not. For 5.0lbs (staff weight) I can carry 10 Teleport scrolls and they're both less likely to be destroyed (1 staff vs. 10 scrolls) and more total charges (10 vs ~6-8).

However, I've found I tend to avoid relying on them at this depth. For example, I just had a run in with "Lorgan, Chief of the Easterlings" sitting inside a circular vault at 2000', and that was a nasty, nasty experience. Probes indicated I couldn't hurt him with anything other than melee/bow and magic missile, and he summons other nasties (two MHDs popped at one point) so I just bailed, rather than run the risk I'd teleport INTO the vault, where ~30 OOD foes were sleeping in wait. Unfortunately, +20 speed just isn't enough to deal with a unique that resists everything (other than MM and bolts) and his summoned foes at the same time. Just chalk it up as a learning experience, bail out and fight another day, right?

ESP v. rPoison is a personal choice. I think PowerDiver is right though. Hopefully you'll find a telepathy helmet soon and it will be a moot point.

Well... I found an iron crown of Telepathy in the BM, and based on the recommendations here, I snagged it. With that equipped, I've got ESP, and Gurthang provides rPoison, so I've got resists for almost everything (exception: Shards, Nether, Chaos, Hold Life).

Thengel isn't doing anything for you right now with Isildur on. I'd wear the crown of might for +2 CON.

I'll try this set of gear out for now. I still need something to replace the boots, as well, so hopefully I can find both scumming level 40 some more - a helm with telepathy that couldn't be damaged by acid would be a good start.

Thanks for the help - I'm trying to get more familiar with "Life after 40", preferably before I have a run in with something I can't fix.

[Derakon]

Note that you cannot teleport into vaults. In fact, if you're in a vault, then any teleportation will take you out of it. Phase Door in a vault typically takes you to the closest non-vault tile, if the vault is of any appreciable size. This can be annoying, but usually I find it to be useful.

And yeah, teleport as an escape is generally a last resort, especially in deeper levels. It's all too easy to end up next to something worse than what you were originally running away from...

[Hariolor]

On a related note vis-a-vis teleport. I've long noticed that multiple teleports in sequence seem to just bounce me between the same 2-3 spots in the dungeon. I am assuming this is some byproduct of the code for teleportation - but it's worth noting as it more-or-less ensures that if you teleport into a bad situation, the next teleport will put you right back in the middle of the *first* bad situation....or maybe I'm crazy.

[miyazaki]

On a related note vis-a-vis teleport. I've long noticed that multiple teleports in sequence seem to just bounce me between the same 2-3 spots in the dungeon. I am assuming this is some byproduct of the code for teleportation - but it's worth noting as it more-or-less ensures that if you teleport into a bad situation, the next teleport will put you right back in the middle of the *first* bad situation....or maybe I'm crazy.

Yeah, my experience too.

[Derakon]

Yeah, there seems to be some emergent behavior in the teleportation code that causes this. I believe it has something to do with the range of teleportation spells; Portal, which is shorter-range (at least early on), seems to be less prone to it.

[buzzkill]

Yep, I've been the victim of teleportation deja vu too. It seems that the easiest fix would be to "remember" where you have been, and don't allow the player to land within a radius xx grids (maybe 5) of that spot.

[nullfame]

I'm packing resists to literally everything I've seen so far that has a resist (exception: shards, nether, chaos) so I've reduced the big-breather worries a bit.

A bit. Max damage for confusion breath with resistance exceeds your current hit points.

the Angband Newbie Guide refers to 1900' as someplace you hold up while you get maxxed stats, along with rConf and rBlind. I have the latter two, so I've been holding at 2000' because I'm not yet at maxxed stats. I also don't have Hold Life which TANG recommends at 2500', so there's a limit to how far I'd dive in any case.

Meh. If that's your pleasure. TANG was written in the 90s and I think the break points are no longer hard stops but just guides. Be careful if you don't have X after Y. I am on 98 w/o rBlind (okay w/ ESP and !CCW). I never consider hold life instead packing !rLifeLevels. You'll max stats naturally on your way down, don't wait for it. Optimize for CON along the way.

We are lucky enough to have TANG's author on the forum. I don't wish to speak for him but suspect he would agree it was written for a by-gone era.

I stopped carrying the staff as soon as I had rConf and rBlind locked up, because staves have a failure rate, and scrolls do not.

Yes. Of course.

I've long noticed that multiple teleports in sequence seem to just bounce me between the same 2-3 spots in the dungeon.

Same experience here.

Oh, and, not to add insult to injury, but you know who else gets killed by teleport? This guy (dl98 mage).

[Derakon]

Yeah, TANG is out of date. Especially in modern Vanilla, for two main reasons:

1) Massive reduction in consumables means that hanging around above 2000' to complete stat gain is hideously boring. Bored players are far more likely to make stupid mistakes than players who are kept on their toes.

2) Existence of easy unlimited object detection for all classes makes stealthing the deep levels in search of good gear much more feasible.

I've had a priest running around below 4000' since character level 35 or so (currently clvl 45). I still don't have resistance to poison (so I carry potions of resist poison), and I only recently got confusion on a non-swap piece of gear. As long as you're careful -- which means only getting into fights you're sure you can win quickly and without attracting outside attention -- you don't need to have all your resists covered to dive.

Most of my gameplay up until I finally started getting decent gear consisted of entering a level, looking for the troll pit (present on >50% of levels in the 3000'-4000' range, I'd guess), clearing it, and then moving on to the next level.

[Nameless]

Wanted to pop back in and acknowledge some of what's been said as I (slowly) continue descent.

A bit. Max damage for confusion breath with resistance exceeds your current hit points.

My first experience with an Ethereal Dragon at 2250' was certainly an eye-opener. Without rConf, a large stack of !CCW and TO, I wouldn't have fared as well. I'll probably try to skip those in the future until I've gotten some more levels under my belt. (~1/10th of a level was pretty sweet, though.)

Meh. If that's your pleasure. TANG was written in the 90s and I think the break points are no longer hard stops but just guides.

Well, everything's just a guide, but there's bound to be a few "gotchas" that TANG actually helps you prepare for. Certainly paralysis and rConf and rBlind (or carrying the means to deal with them) are listed. I suppose if I were going to rewrite it for the modern era, I'd add some suggestions about rough estimates of HP to have at various depths to avoid "It breathes. You die." assuming you at least have the brains to bring the appropriate precautions (potion, resist items, etc). Doesn't have to be perfect, but a ballpark wouldn't be harmful for new players.

Oh, and, not to add insult to injury, but you know who else gets killed by teleport? This guy (dl98 mage).

I believe the technical term is "ouch", but level 39 at dl98? That's only five character levels over me - is the last part of the descent (2500+) supposed to be a plummet straight to scum dl98, and I'm just not "getting it"?

1) Massive reduction in consumables means that hanging around above 2000' to complete stat gain is hideously boring. Bored players are far more likely to make stupid mistakes than players who are kept on their toes.

Fair enough, but I'm finding that without a few more levels under my belt, even in-depth monsters are nasty. Conf breathers (like the aforementioned ED) are already hitting me for a third of my HP per breath (mitigated by damage I deal?).

2) Existence of easy unlimited object detection for all classes makes stealthing the deep levels in search of good gear much more feasible.

I look pointedly at this. Feasible, or necessary? One is a choice, and the other implies descending to depths where fighting is not a good option just to try and pluck a few gems from the altar, so to speak.

I've had a priest running around below 4000' since character level 35 or so (currently clvl 45).

I'm having a hard time imagining that for my mage - anything that can get into melee (not much, admittedly, given speed/phase) or that deals substantial ranged damage (breathers) is a hugely potent threat, and I'm at 34 now and just over half your depth. I suppose I could simply TO anything that I can't kill in a round or two, but I'm reasonably sure there's a failure rate built into TO, and anything I fail on at those depths is likely to make mage-kabob pretty quickly. What am I not "getting" here?

[Derakon]

I believe the technical term is "ouch", but level 39 at dl98? That's only five character levels over me - is the last part of the descent (2500+) supposed to be a plummet straight to scum dl98, and I'm just not "getting it"?

Pretty much. Between 2500' and 4900', there aren't many new standard monsters that show up; it's mostly just new uniques. However, the quality of the loot that gets dropped increases significantly (in particular, Rings of Speed become in-depth at 4000' and are usually vital gear). Thus, diving doesn't significantly increase the amount of danger you have to deal with, but it does significantly improve the equipment you get to deal with that danger.

Fair enough, but I'm finding that without a few more levels under my belt, even in-depth monsters are nasty. Conf breathers (like the aforementioned ED) are already hitting me for a third of my HP per breath (mitigated by damage I deal?).

Breath damage is a third of the monster's current hitpoints, or the maximum damage allowed for that element, whichever is lower. So yes, after a bit of beating on an Ethereal Dragon its damage from breath weapons will decrease (confusion damage cap is 400, and EDs have 1848 hitpoints).

However, the real trick here is to simply not fight EDs. You should be looking for low-risk, high-profit monsters like orcs, trolls, and the lesser dragon types whose breath weapons are easily resisted (and even double-resisted).

I look pointedly at this. Feasible, or necessary? One is a choice, and the other implies descending to depths where fighting is not a good option just to try and pluck a few gems from the altar, so to speak.

Not necessary, but it does in fact make the game much quicker, which in turn means that you have fewer opportunities to make a stupid mistake. There's slightly higher odds of getting in over your head, but not that much higher so long as you stay aware of what's in the area and you don't try to pick fights.

I suppose I could simply TO anything that I can't kill in a round or two, but I'm reasonably sure there's a failure rate built into TO, and anything I fail on at those depths is likely to make mage-kabob pretty quickly. What am I not "getting" here?

Beyond the failure rate on casting the spell itself, TO is 100% effective. This is not true in all variants, but it is in vanilla. My priest casts TO a lot, even when he can deal with the monsters in question; I may just not want to fight them (example: summoners, disenchanters, drainers, or monsters with ridiculously high hitpoints), or I may want to turn a slogfest of a fight (e.g. 14 lesser balrogs) into one that's shorter and sharper.

[Nameless]

Pretty much. Between 2500' and 4900', there aren't many new standard monsters that show up; it's mostly just new uniques. However, the quality of the loot that gets dropped increases significantly (in particular, Rings of Speed become in-depth at 4000' and are usually vital gear). Thus, diving doesn't significantly increase the amount of danger you have to deal with, but it does significantly improve the equipment you get to deal with that danger.

Aha! Do the RoS I snagged in the BM (for my entire supply of stat-gain funds at the time) was not only the good deal it appeared, it was a GREAT deal. Got it. That also means that I'm good to dive a little deeper. I'm already carrying the potions of restore life, and the next checkpoint listed in TANG is significantly deeper...

Breath damage is a third of the monster's current hitpoints, or the maximum damage allowed for that element, whichever is lower. So yes, after a bit of beating on an Ethereal Dragon its damage from breath weapons will decrease (confusion damage cap is 400, and EDs have 1848 hitpoints).

Is there a place where the damage caps by damage type are listed (aside from digging through the source)?

However, the real trick here is to simply not fight EDs. You should be looking for low-risk, high-profit monsters like orcs, trolls, and the lesser dragon types whose breath weapons are easily resisted (and even double-resisted).

Fair enough - I mostly fought because I'd just arrived on the level - bad luck with placement stuck me in the same room, which I had to keep teleporting him out of while I cleared it. Once the lesser foes were dealt with, I had to decide: Leave this level (without having poked around a bit to find stairs or a safe way to them) or give him what for. Once I found that TO worked, and he didn't recover as fast as I did, it was just a matter of suriving long enough to kill him. (Close moment when he breathed twice in a row, but I had enough HP to survive. Lesson learned: If it breathes, do not let it breathe twice!)

Not necessary, but it does in fact make the game much quicker, which in turn means that you have fewer opportunities to make a stupid mistake. There's slightly higher odds of getting in over your head, but not that much higher so long as you stay aware of what's in the area and you don't try to pick fights.

Yeah, the tidbit you added about not introducing a lot more standard monsters makes sense - and I'm not looking to fight uniques at this depth as it is (though I've picked off a couple reverse-OOD uniques I passed earlier).

Beyond the failure rate on casting the spell itself, TO is 100% effective. This is not true in all variants, but it is in vanilla. My priest casts TO a lot, even when he can deal with the monsters in question; I may just not want to fight them (example: summoners, disenchanters, drainers, or monsters with ridiculously high hitpoints), or I may want to turn a slogfest of a fight (e.g. 14 lesser balrogs) into one that's shorter and sharper.

This, I did not know. I figured that either there were monsters against whom TO was useless (possibly some uniques) or that there was an internal (hidden) failure rate built into it that I hadn't yet seen in action. Is there ANYTHING against which TO will fail?