Mage Help/Tips

[ramier]

I've played warriors mostly so far, and wanted to try a spellcasting class like mages...but they're a bit more difficult to keep alive. I've been using an Elf, should I try some other race? Also, if someone wants to give some tips on how fast to dive, what items and consumables to look for and keep, what dlvl ranges to sit at, what macros might be useful...

Elf mages don't seem as capable of diving fast like a HalfTroll warrior can, and I've been making the mistake of playing the mage as quickly as I ran the warrior, so any tips would help. Thanks!

[Derakon]

I suggest sticking to High-Elves, Dunadan, and Half-Trolls for now. The other races are harder to play, largely due to having worse stats, especially constitution -- but the High-Elf's see invisible, Dunadan's sustain constitution, and Half-Troll's regeneration are all excellent inherent traits, too. I'd also recommend trying one of the hybrid classes instead of a pure mage. Try a ranger, for example. That'll let you try spellcasting without having to rely on it.

Mages (and priests) are much slower to start out than warriors, especially half-troll warriors. Warriors have gobs of hitpoints they can use to soak up punishment, and they have easy access to damage in their melee weapon. Mages have terrible hitpoints and can't deal much damage before having to flee, so they require a totally different playstyle.

[Atarlost]

I think most of the classic advice still applies.

[ramier]

I've been playing a highelf mage for a while and I don't get this "different playstyle". At what point am I able to kill anything? Or am I supposed to be running away from everyone forever? I'm clvl 20, via cheat_death, and this manapool of 37 doesn't allow me to do any damage. I can't kill any uniques, and consequentially have only found 1 ego item, 0 artifacts, since all I'm doing is running away. I want to play mage instead of a hybrid, since a hybrid like a ranger just seems to be a warrior but hey, I can use spells instead of scrolls to phase and detect. So far mage feels completely underpowered compared to a warrior....

[Ycombinator]

At what point am I able to kill anything?

Fun starts when you have Raal's and reasonable fail rates for spells in it. Yes, you have to run away most of the times before this. And when you have big spells you have to run away a bit less often.
The full power of the mages is unleashed at 40+ clvls, when you have all magic books up to and including Kelek's and have 0% fail for most spells. That means you have unlimited guaranteed escaping, unlimited banishment etc. Mages can't do as much damage as warriors and rangers, but they're capable of producing considerable amount of unavoidable damage nonetheless.

[PowerDiver]

I've been playing a highelf mage for a while and I don't get this "different playstyle". At what point am I able to kill anything? Or am I supposed to be running away from everyone forever? I'm clvl 20, via cheat_death, and this manapool of 37 doesn't allow me to do any damage. I can't kill any uniques, and consequentially have only found 1 ego item, 0 artifacts, since all I'm doing is running away. I want to play mage instead of a hybrid, since a hybrid like a ranger just seems to be a warrior but hey, I can use spells instead of scrolls to phase and detect. So far mage feels completely underpowered compared to a warrior....

For the most part, you should not be using your mana for damage. Early on, throw oil, though you will also need ?bless if you want to be able to hit moderate opponents like Fang. Then you move up to a longbow. Then magical devices. When you find wands of elemental balls, save them up to kill a unique.

You fight snagas and cave orcs and black orcs if you have light beams, but you do not fight hill orcs unless you can kill them all with elec beams, and that is assuming you can line them up in a corridor and you know nothing else will come after you while you sort through the loot.

If you want to learn to play a mage, but you can't survive, try diving like a madman with another class, any class you like. The lessons you learn keeping an underpowered diver alive translate quite well to keeping a mage alive.

[Monkey Face]

Did you start by maximizing your intelligence? With a High Elf mage, you can start with 18/60 which should have plenty of mana by the time you are level 20 to kill most early uniques (with the exception of Smeagol) using a combination of Magic Missile and Phase Door.

[azfalt]

The early game for mages has definitely gotten easier with recent changes to spell costs in 3.1.2v2 - stinking cloud and the bolt spells are now much more reasonably priced.

I agree with the race advice above. High-elf is probably the easiest race to try a mage, not only due to stats and see invis, but good bow proficiency, which will be your primary weapon for the early game. You must pick your fights very carefully - go for low-risk, high-yield groups of monsters such as light-sensitive orcs. Hounds can be a real boon early if you resist their attack (eg light hounds for high-elf), as they are worth a lot of XP initially.

Raal's changes the game entirely - shockwave stuns frequently enough to be useful even on some uniques, and rift becomes your primary weapon once it's available.

[ewert]

I disagree that you need to use ranged weapons anymore. With 3.1.2 and the new mana costs I played a nearly pure mage (I think shot maybe half a dozen or so branded arrows on a couple of low unique orcs). And I played a half-troll. =P

I'd suggest high elf, max int (yes even the superhighcost point). Abuse rings of escaping for somewhat easier early game (you want rings of escaping or rings of intelligence ASAP). Magic missile is your friend with =RoE. Skip armor if it doesn't bring you useful stuff for ranged stuff. ESCAPE, that means phase door scrolls etc. Some low level uniques will present problems due to clvl and mana max before you can find +int stuff, just escape and skip em until later.

Yes it is a totally different playstyle. I'd leave ranger stuff to rangers myself. You have to pick your battles very differently, kill high xp single monsters etc. and avoid packs of things until your mana pool is good enough. Or lure part of the pack away, and ball/beam spells with mana usage considered (sometimes it's better to singletarget spell them anyways to drop a few then evade).

After you get your first few int items, and get to over 18/90 int, every little bit of INT gives plenty to mana pool, and it starts to get fun. Before that, careful battle picking...

Oh and maybe a little premature hints, but once you get to staff of magi/healing range, first scrounge up 3 or 4 staves, and then you have near-infinte healing and mana. 4 staves of healing and 4 staves of magi means recharge will almost never blow one up. It's all dandy after that.

[PowerDiver]

I disagree that you need to use ranged weapons anymore. With 3.1.2 and the new mana costs I played a nearly pure mage (I think shot maybe half a dozen or so branded arrows on a couple of low unique orcs). And I played a half-troll. =P

It is true that a skilled player can play without ranged weapons, but it is far more powerful [before rift] to use your mana primarily for phase and CLW and do your damage with arrows. Someone having trouble keeping a mage alive is making a mistake IMO by spending much mana on damage. Even after fire bolt is effective, you want to keep a mana reserve for escapes.

There will always be situations where damage spells are appropriate, but the default should be phase and shoot.

[ewert]

Yes it is undoubtedly still powerful (ranged that is). One could use scrolls for phase or wands for dmg, etc., tons of choices of course. But for the ranged+magic backup I'd go with what has been suggested: use ranger instead as the learning class for magic.

[Zikke]

I think rogues are super nice for learning magic since with their stealth you never get in a fight you aren't ready for. And they are serious business in melee/range fighting also.

The difference between a mage and a hybrid (rogue or ranger) is that the mage needs to rely heavily on spells for damage, and rogues/rangers usually only use them for utility and getting out of trouble (which is also very important for mages).

[miyazaki]

There will always be situations where damage spells are appropriate, but the default should be phase and shoot.

I look forward to the time when this is no longer true!

[Zikke]

I would love for the game to allow mages to use their damage spells the entire game and have them scale to always be appropriate.

[Tiburon Silverflame]

If I can find a decent magical bow, I'll use it with a mage. Barring that, tho, I use spells until I can start finding the first few wands.

It is true that a skilled player can play without ranged weapons, but it is far more powerful [before rift] to use your mana primarily for phase and CLW and do your damage with arrows. Someone having trouble keeping a mage alive is making a mistake IMO by spending much mana on damage. Even after fire bolt is effective, you want to keep a mana reserve for escapes.

There will always be situations where damage spells are appropriate, but the default should be phase and shoot.

You definitely need to keep a mana reserve for escapes. However, one serious issue can be load, if you try to carry around large quantities of arrows. It'll take a long time before a mage can carry anything much, and the weight alone makes the better shooters problematic.

Regen is incredibly useful when you're doing damage with spells...or even if you're just commonly using haste + phase to shoot.

And stealth is incredibly useful for the low-level mage. Character level is crucial; it translates to higher-damage spells, higher damage on the spells you have, improved reliability, and more mana (and hit points of course). So you really want to be able to take out those 15-20 orcs/kobolds; they'll be a big chunk of a level at that point.