Balance ranged attacks: remove all extra shots

[Atarlost]

What I've been thinking of is to trim multipliers (instead of each +Y to might representing a (Y+1)X multiplier it would represent a (Y/2+1)X multiplier)

That puts Haradrim at X4, Bard at X3, a normal heavy crossbow at X2.5, and a normal longbow at X2. It really hurts slings the most, and upping the base damage for them might be wise since a thrown rock is a lot more effective than a thrown arrow.

Reducing the number of sources of extra shots would still be needed I expect even if this removed the need to eliminate them entirely.

[Derakon]

Removing extra shots seems to me too dramatic for an interim change. I'd hope we could get to a trunk version with fractional blows soon enough that we didn't need an interim change. If we did need one I'd go with the branding damage change over removing extra shots.

I don't think that removing extra shots and moving to an energy-based system for shots is necessarily mutually-exclusive. If the ranger were the only class able to shoot quickly, that would do a good job of making it distinct from the other classes.

My concern is that a game that is balanced with extra shots in will necessarily weaken single-shot ranged combat significantly. That's why I believe the concept of extra shots needs to go. As I mentioned earlier, we could replace it with "fast shots". But I'd have some concerns about how we'd communicate that to the player. I actually favor the other suggestion made here: just use extra might instead.

If you compare melee and ranged attacks, you'll see that the multiplier on ranged attacks is basically like the number of blows you get in melee. Bows of Extra Might are directly analogous to Weapons of Extra Blows. Speeding up the rate of fire has no such corresponding ability in melee, though, and for good reason. Can you imagine a Whip of Doubled Attacks? It'd be insane. A Whip of Fast Attacks could be balanced (decreasing the energy cost for melee attacks by X%), but it's also basically identical in function to a Whip of Extra Blows.

I'm not saying that every missile ability needs to have a corresponding melee ability, but I do feel that the two need to be balanced with respect to each other, so neither way of attacking should have overwhelmingly powerful abilities.

[Atriel]

I think someone should take a look at the final [O] and [FA] balance of missiles.

Shots are fractional and different based on WEAPON CLASS, CHARACTER CLASS, CHARACTER LEVEL and DEX. IE Ranger with max dex and max levels has a maximum of something like 3/2/2 extra shots to bows, XBows and slings respectively. Brands apply with lower effect in missiles than weapons (another reason it doesn't do as much damage), and dice for weapons is small. I hate missiles but have finished an [O] ranger and assassin, a [FA] ranger, and they are ok; with the exception of some extremely stealthy builds in [FA], everything seems balanced.
Also, every class has different bonuses to fractional extra shot. Melee classes usually do have a base +0.5 extra shot with maxed dex. Rogues have huge bonus xtra shots to slings, etc...

The cool thing is that, for example, a lvl 22 range with decent dex would have like 1.84 shots/turn, for example.

Another suggestion
Make max enchantment to generated ammo to be 15, not more. Also would alleviate the worrying to merge ammo.

[fizzix]

Put me in the remove extra shots camp.

At the very least, extra shots should never appear on anything but launchers.

[Magnate]

I think someone should take a look at the final [O] and [FA] balance of missiles.

I don't know anything about FA, but missile combat in O (and in S, which is the same) has long been considered significantly underpowered. I guess that's partly because it's so overpowered in V, but not entirely. I've played a lot of S, and it's *very* hard to build a character who kills primarily with missiles.

[Nick]

I don't know anything about FA, but missile combat in O (and in S, which is the same) has long been considered significantly underpowered. I guess that's partly because it's so overpowered in V, but not entirely. I've played a lot of S, and it's *very* hard to build a character who kills primarily with missiles.

O missile combat is underpowered for beginning characters, and about right for endgame characters. FA missile combat was rebalanced by Psi for v0.3.6, and is now pretty well balanced all the way through (or so the experts that get that far tell me).

[LostTemplar]

In FA missiles are usefull for any class. I use archery alot even playing druid or paladin.
Actually it is not much weaker then in V. Ranger can get 3 shots for about 300 dmg per shot, taking into account that monsters have about half HP compared to V, this is as good as 1800 dmg/round in V.