Ranger magic...

[Tiburon Silverflame]

I think the scene LostTemplar might be referencing, is the battle before the gates of Gondor. Not sure it's lightning bolts per se, but that would be a quibble.

What isn't: Gandalf is a divine spirit. Iluvatar is God; Manwe and Melkor are archangels (with Melkor playing the Lucifer role, if we can borrow from Milton). Gandalf, in this hierarchy, would be a seraphim. His power isn't from study, it's from what he *is*.

[Zyphyr]

I'm pretty sure Rogrog is from Tolkien. He's famed for leading an attack on the Shire and being killed by Bandobras Took.

All the references I can find through google indicate that Rogrog was a creation of Iron Crown Enterprises for one of the supplements for their Middle Earth Roleplaying game from the time period where they had run out of Canon material and were just churning out additional stuff to make a buck.

[Atarlost]

Ah, I'm confusing him with Golfimbul.

I don't think you can discard ICE stuff though since there's no other source for most of the Nazgul.

[d_m]

I still have a fondness for Iron Crown Enterprises... I actually grew up in Charlottesville and remember seeing them around (before they went bankrupt anyway).

[ramela]

The ICE stuff for MERP was really good.

As close to the spirit of Tolkien's works as you could get with a "stat/class/spell list" -system for character development.

[Zyphyr]

I wasn't in any way saying "ICE sucks". Heck, I have quite a few of their products laying around and had quite a bit of fun with said products back in the day. It was meant as more of a note that the later MERP products were entirely the creations of their own imaginations instead of interpretations/expansions of actual canon info the way the earlier products were.

So, no Rogrog wasn't canon, but he is arguably closer that the rest of that list.

[ramela]

I don't think anyone took your comment as bashing ICE. You just brought up some old memories.

ICE's material propably makes for a good source IMO.

[Tiburon Silverflame]

I'm pretty sure it was Golfimbul who was killed by Bandobras. I'm remembering a line that runs something like "Bandobras knocked his head off and into a hole, winning the battle and inventing the game of Golf at the same time."

[Atarlost]

In Tolkien's mythology magic is just as available to elves and dwarves as to ainur. The anti-undead properties of weapons forged in Arnor indicate the mortal Numenorians also had what can only be described as magic. The Druedain also have magical abilities.

There are also indications that the istari as originally incarnated have their power limited so that they can't do the job on their own. This may indicate that anything Gandalf did before his reincarnation was something a powerful elf could learn to do. He certainly had no affinity for fire apart from Narya, and that was purely elven work. He was a maia of Lorien. His natural tendency would be to sleep related magic. That a work of elven craft dominated his arsenal indicates that he is weaker than it as incarnated.

[will_asher]

I'm pretty sure Rogrog is from Tolkien. He's famed for leading an attack on the Shire and being killed by Bandobras Took.

And even if he isn't his name appears to be derived from Sindarin for monstrous so he can be fit in with ease.

The Cat Lord can be made to fit with a name change since there's a cat lord in the early versions of Beren and Luthien.

I turned the Cat Lord into the White Cat of Beruthiel for DaJAngband. Beruthiel was a Queen of Gondor who had one white cat and nine black cats.

Lokkak can easily be renamed Ulbandi who was an ogre lord from Tolkien.

[ramela]

He was a maia of Lorien. His natural tendency would be to sleep related magic. That a work of elven craft dominated his arsenal indicates that he is weaker than it as incarnated.

I'm 95% sure that Gandalf was of the people of Manwe.

[Hariolor]

I'm 95% sure that Gandalf was of the people of Manwe.

Gandalf was an Istari, and one of the Valar of Manwe. The variety of Valar to which he belonged was the Maiar. He's basically a demigod draped in mortal flesh. After his resurrection he became *significantly* more powerful, both as leader of the Istari, and as a result of having the restrictions on his powers opened up a bit.

[Nick]

I'm 95% sure that Gandalf was of the people of Manwe.

I believe Lorien is correct. There was speculation that he *was* Manwe, but that was ultimately rejected, I think.

It should be pointed out, too, that Tolkien changed his mind a lot. For example, Celeborn's ancestry was changed several times (some of them after LoTR was published), and he had apparently not come to a settled conclusion when he died. I have thought from time to time of making an ultra-Tolkien-strict *band/roguelike, and have come to the conclusion that it's inherently contradictory. So any approach is going to require some filler and some compromise.

Might I also congratulate everyone in this thread for keeping the use of the word "canon" to an absolute minimum

[Atarlost]

I'm 95% sure that Gandalf was of the people of Manwe.

You're 5% right. Check the Valaquenta again. Second paragraph from the end of the section on the maiar.

He was nominated to join the Istari by Manwe, but he was not of Manwe's people.