Randart bug in V3.1.2

[miyazaki]

I found an amulet that branded my melee attacks with *slay demon* but it didn't work properly. In the "I"dentify screen, my weapon of Gondolin had two average damages listed for demons. And when I attacked a hezrou the poison brand was applied. My file dump ishere. I also have the savefile still.

[PowerDiver]

I found an amulet that branded my melee attacks with *slay demon* but it didn't work properly. In the "I"dentify screen, my weapon of Gondolin had two average damages listed for demons. And when I attacked a hezrou the poison brand was applied. My file dump ishere. I also have the savefile still.

That dump says r1903. I think there was a bug with the wrong message being printed that has been fixed, perhaps since then. The message might get fixed if you upgrade.

As to both slay demon and *slay demon being in the description, I think that is correct behavior. The understanding is that damage is the maximum among those listed. Also, the *only* place you are informed the weapon has the slay_demon flag is inferentially from the description, so I think it would be an error to remove it. Perhaps we should put "would do" in front of the slay_demon, but do we really want the description to get any longer?

[miyazaki]

That dump says r1903. I think there was a bug with the wrong message being printed that has been fixed, perhaps since then. The message might get fixed if you upgrade.

As to both slay demon and *slay demon being in the description, I think that is correct behavior. The understanding is that damage is the maximum among those listed. Also, the *only* place you are informed the weapon has the slay_demon flag is inferentially from the description, so I think it would be an error to remove it. Perhaps we should put "would do" in front of the slay_demon, but do we really want the description to get any longer?

Downloaded the latest nightly and it is still not working properly. The message when I hit a demon is smite, or poison, or some other brand, except if I use a weapon with no other brands/slays. You think the message is wrong but the damage is right?

I think it would make more sense to only have one average damage for each monster type. It would actually shorten the description.

[PowerDiver]

Downloaded the latest nightly and it is still not working properly. The message when I hit a demon is smite, or poison, or some other brand, except if I use a weapon with no other brands/slays. You think the message is wrong but the damage is right?

I think it would make more sense to only have one average damage for each monster type. It would actually shorten the description.

It is possible the message problem was discussed but never fixed, or not fixed properly. I couldn't find the change on trac, but I wasn't really sure what to look for.

                                for (i = INVEN_LEFT; i < INVEN_TOTAL; i++)
                                {
                                        other_brand_mult[i] = get_brand_mult(
                                                &inventory[i], m_ptr,
                                                &hit_verb, FALSE);

                                        if (other_brand_mult[i] > use_mult)
                                                use_mult = other_brand_mult[i];
                                }

                                weapon_brand_mult = get_brand_mult(o_ptr,
                                                m_ptr, &hit_verb, FALSE);

                                if (weapon_brand_mult > use_mult)
                                        use_mult = weapon_brand_mult;

It appears that use_mult is being updated properly, but hit_verb is being overwritten, so you get the wrong message but presumably the right multiplier. Whoever fixes this should also change that inscrutable FALSE to some const, preferably an enum, with a readable name such as IS_NOT_RANGED or IS_MELEE.

You can't remove the regular slay from the description without being misleading. Perhaps the off-weapon attacks should be in a separate paragraph, or the "would do" I mentioned earlier, or who knows what, but somehow when you inspect the weapon you *must* be able to see that it has slay_demon even when you are wearing the randart with kill_demon.

[PowerDiver]

I've cleaned up the code so that it should be impossible for the verb to disagree with the multiplier. It may take a while to test and incorporate into head, but hopefully not too long.

This verb stuff reminds me that I would prefer to have (smite(x2), smite(x3), smite(x5)) for the verbs for (slay evil, slay demon, kill demon) rather than (smite, smite, fiercely smite) as it is now. Anyone with me on this?

[d_m]

This verb stuff reminds me that I would prefer to have (smite(x2), smite(x3), smite(x5)) for the verbs for (slay evil, slay demon, kill demon) rather than (smite, smite, fiercely smite) as it is now. Anyone with me on this?

I would meet you halfway, something like:

slay(x2) evil
slay(x3) demon
smite(x5) demon OR *slay*(x5) demon

In other words, I like making the multiplier visible but I don't like conflating slay and *slay*.

[miyazaki]

You can't remove the regular slay from the description without being misleading. Perhaps the off-weapon attacks should be in a separate paragraph, or the "would do" I mentioned earlier, or who knows what, but somehow when you inspect the weapon you *must* be able to see that it has slay_demon even when you are wearing the randart with kill_demon.

I like the idea of a separate paragraph. Something like this:

a) a Cutlass of Gondolin (1d8) (+10,+9)
     Slays demons, orcs, trolls, dragons.
     Provides resistance to dark.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Prevents paralysis.  Grants telepathy.  Grants the ability to see
     invisible things.  
     
     Combat info:
     4 blows/round.
     Average damage/hit: 41.7 vs. demons, 41.7 vs. orcs, 41.7 vs.
     trolls, 41.7 vs. dragons, and 31.9 vs. others.

     This weapon benefits from one or more off-weapon brands or slays.
     Average damage/hit: 51.5 vs. demons

     Radius 1 light.

[PowerDiver]

I would meet you halfway, something like:

slay(x2) evil
slay(x3) demon
smite(x5) demon OR *slay*(x5) demon

In other words, I like making the multiplier visible but I don't like conflating slay and *slay*.

Fine by me. But in that case, why not use 3 separate verbs? I don't like putting '*'s in names, so I'd hope for something other than *slay*.

If there are different levels for fire branding, as in some variants, I think we might agree on burn(x2) vs burn(x3) vs burn(x5) which is why I just suggested the single verb smite in my example. Also, a single verb would allow for adding multipliers, e.g. with 3 separate +(x1) fire brand flags you do x4 damage with message burn(x4). I am not recommending this, but I see no point to precluding it.

[d_m]

If there are different levels for fire branding, as in some variants, I think we might agree on burn(x2) vs burn(x3) vs burn(x5) which is why I just suggested the single verb smite in my example. Also, a single verb would allow for adding multipliers, e.g. with 3 separate +(x1) fire brand flags you do x4 damage with message burn(x4). I am not recommending this, but I see no point to precluding it.

I think if we are going to do additive brands/slays then this makes a ton of sense. If not, I like the idea of a x2 verb, a x3 verb and a x5 verb for slays.

[Magnate]

I like the idea of a separate paragraph. Something like this:

a) a Cutlass of Gondolin (1d8) (+10,+9)
     Slays demons, orcs, trolls, dragons.
     Provides resistance to dark.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Prevents paralysis.  Grants telepathy.  Grants the ability to see
     invisible things.  
     
     Combat info:
     4 blows/round.
     Average damage/hit: 41.7 vs. demons, 41.7 vs. orcs, 41.7 vs.
     trolls, 41.7 vs. dragons, and 31.9 vs. others.

     This weapon benefits from one or more off-weapon brands or slays.
     Average damage/hit: 51.5 vs. demons

     Radius 1 light.

That works for me. I guess the code needs to be intelligent enough not to print the "This weapon benefits" line if the off-weapon slay is inferior to one on the weapon (e.g. randart with slay demon, weapon has *slay*).

[PowerDiver]

I think if we are going to do additive brands/slays then this makes a ton of sense. If not, I like the idea of a x2 verb, a x3 verb and a x5 verb for slays.

If we go with 3 separate verbs, would the redundant (x2) etc be desirable? Also, currently missiles "pierce". Should they use the same 3 verbs?

A couple possibilities: smack(x2), slay(x3), smite(x5) or slay(x2), smite(x3), blast(x5)

[Sirridan]

If we go with 3 separate verbs, would the redundant (x2) etc be desirable? Also, currently missiles "pierce". Should they use the same 3 verbs?

A couple possibilities: smack(x2), slay(x3), smite(x5) or slay(x2), smite(x3), blast(x5)

Personally, I don't like using 'slay' as a verb, as it implies killing the monster outright.

Perhaps smack(x2), strike(x3), smite(x5)?

[Derakon]

Strikes powerfully at, blasts, and smites.

I don't like "smack" since it sounds a little cartoony.

[miyazaki]

Main Entry: hit
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: strike
Synonyms:
KO, bang, bash, bat, batter, beat, belt, blast, blitz, box*, brain*, buffet, bump,
clap, clip, clobber, clout, club, crack, cudgel, cuff, dab, ding, flail, flax, flog,
give a black eye, hammer*, hook, jab, kick, knock, knock around, knock out,
lace, lambaste, larrup, lather, let fly, let have it, lob, nail, pellet, pelt, percuss,
pop, pound, punch, rap, ride roughshod, slap, smack, sock, stone, swat, tap,
thrash, thump, thwack, trash, uppercut, wallop, whack, whang, zing

I vote for "ding", "thwack" and "whang".

[ekolis]

I want a Long Bow of Twang Frenchman! Or maybe a Pistol of Whack Mobster... Or even a Scalpel of Spay Animal! :P

Seriously, how about "strike", "smite", and "slay"? Slay of course being the most powerful... it is kinda disappointing that a "slay" weapon is not a 1-hit kill though

edit: whoops, must have not read Sirridan's post fully, I'm being a bit redundant I suppose! :P