Damaged Armour

[fyonn]

just a quick thought.

My lvl 14 HE Ranger[1] just took off a cloak[1,-4]. The cloak was originally a +3 I think, but got damaged by acid. that cloak was giving me -3AC. it was making me easier to hit than not wearing it at all... Should it be possible to damage a piece of armour so that it provides negative AC? seems a bit counterintuitive. could we not cap the damage at the full value of the AC it provides? a fully damaged cloak should just be rags held together by threads, ie providing no protection.

dave

[1] who just found raal's on dlvl 10! can't use it for a number of levels yet, tempted to just flog it tbh, but there's nothing yet I would rather buy in the stores...

[ekolis]

Yeah, that does seem rather silly... cursed armor I could see giving -AC, but just damaged? I suppose it does sorta make sense though... YOU try dodging enemy attacks in a chainmail that's rusted through! :P

[Marble Dice]

I could have sworn armor used to behave that way, with negative penalties capped to match the base armor rating of the item. I'm not sure if or when it changed recently?

[fyonn]

Yeah, that does seem rather silly... cursed armor I could see giving -AC, but just damaged? I suppose it does sorta make sense though... YOU try dodging enemy attacks in a chainmail that's rusted through! :P

but if its rusted so bad that it's not defending you against a sword attack, then it's virtually falling off isn't it?

I agree on the cursed armour though, that should be able to give you proper negative AC, but just damage, esp acid or disenchantment I think should be capped at the AC value of the armour.

Also, why do I see items being pseudo'd as magical and when I ID them, they're all negative (ie dagger (-4,-2))? shouldn't they psuedo as worthless?

dave

[ekolis]

Magical != good

Cursed items are magical, I'd think...

[Zikke]

I agree that armor shouldn't give negative AC unless it's cursed, but changing it would break balance.

[PowerDiver]

just a quick thought.

My lvl 14 HE Ranger[1] just took off a cloak[1,-4]. The cloak was originally a +3 I think

Are you sure? This code snip should stop that.

        /* No damage left to be done */
        if (o_ptr->ac + o_ptr->to_a <= 0) return (FALSE);

In the old days, every cloak [1,-4] was cursed. Now as of 3.1 they are {magical} the same as a cloak [1, +4]. However, I don't see how that change could migrate into the acid attack code effects.

There is a possibly recent change by which items in the pack sometime lose AC rather than being destroyed that may not do the above check, but you say you were wearing it at the time. If you took it off to fight a pack of acid hounds and then reequipped it, that could explain it.

I suppose there is an off chance this could be related to the quiver changes, but I am dubious of that too.

[Atarlost]

But a broken dagger (-2,-4) isn't cursed. It's just a bog standard broken dagger. Those maluses aren't applied by the magic code, but are in the weapon's k_info entry itself.

[fyonn]

Are you sure? This code snip should stop that.

I was.. obviously I'm not now you've questioned me on it.. and it's too far back in message history to check now. will keep my eye open for it in the future..


dave

[d_m]

I can confirm that wearing gloves [1, -5] makes your AC 4 less than it was before wearing them. I am looking into it.

[PowerDiver]

I can confirm that wearing gloves [1, -5] makes your AC 4 less than it was before wearing them. I am looking into it.

That is clearly correct behavior. If you don't like it, don't generate them.

There was a fairly recent discussion that suggested that when an item [x, y] is damaged, it should change to [x-1, y] rather than [x, y-1] with a minimum value of 0 for x. Then, repair either by service or spell could revert to the value for the tval+sval in k_info. Scrolls of enchant armor should only affect the y. You would need to add some new scroll or store service.

The above seems like the right solution. I do not remember anyone actually making a feature request.

[d_m]

Here is a patch that fixes this: no item can subtract more than its bonus. If more complex logic is desired then this will need to be modified.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm reluctant to check this in until there is some general agreement about how it should work.

Index: src/player/calcs.c
===================================================================
--- src/player/calcs.c  (revision 1961)
+++ src/player/calcs.c  (working copy)
@@ -702,11 +702,11 @@
 
                /* Apply the bonuses to armor class */
                if (!id_only || object_is_known(o_ptr))
-                       state->to_a += o_ptr->to_a;
+                       state->to_a += MAX(-o_ptr->ac, o_ptr->to_a);
 
                /* Apply the mental bonuses to armor class, if known */
                if (object_defence_plusses_are_visible(o_ptr))
-                       state->dis_to_a += o_ptr->to_a;
+                       state->dis_to_a += MAX(-o_ptr->ac, o_ptr->to_a);
 
                /* Hack -- do not apply "weapon" bonuses */
                if (i == INVEN_WIELD) continue;

[buzzkill]

That is clearly correct behavior. If you don't like it, don't generate them.

There was a fairly recent discussion that suggested that when an item [x, y] is damaged, it should change to [x-1, y] rather than [x, y-1] with a minimum value of 0 for x. Then, repair either by service or spell could revert to the value for the tval+sval in k_info. Scrolls of enchant armor should only affect the y. You would need to add some new scroll or store service.

The above seems like the right solution. I do not remember anyone actually making a feature request.

This makes sense, at least to me. The physical attribute of the item should be affected by things like acid attacks. The enchantment should only be affected by dis-enchantment or curse.

Beyond that, I'd say that once am items physical value reaches (-1), it is destroyed, regardless of enchantment.

[Pete Mack]

@d_m
This seems like the wrong change. It's always been the case that negative bonuses drive AC below 0, and that combat damage (acid, disenchantment) can't drive the value (further) negative.

@buzzkill:
This will make cloaks of stealth and boots of speed essentially worthless without acid immunity. Seems kind of harsh.

[buzzkill]

@buzzkill: This will make cloaks of stealth and boots of speed essentially worthless without acid immunity. Seems kind of harsh.

I hadn't put that much thought into it. IRL, how many acid baths could a (non acid resistant) cloak endure before becoming useless. My fault for using reality as a basis.