"Weight of your armor encumbers your movement"

[Tiburon Silverflame]

The answer that fantasy gives, depends on the source. Eddings, for example, has all the Mimbrates in full plate whenever they walk out the door; same with the knightly orders in the Sparhawk books. Feist, that I can recall, only has Tomas ever pointedly wearing heavy armor, and, well, that was artifact-level gear. Doesn't count.

And hey, this is a game. Is it realistic to be able to carry around 4 polearms and 3 different sets of full armor? Ignore the weight, just think of the load distribution issues.

[Storch]

I have always thought that heavy armor should reduce speed and not mana.

[PowerDiver]

I don't think that fantasy novels are all that great a source for realism.

Our discussion is about superhuman heroes trekking for miles while wearing heavy armor that protects many times as much as a large shield. That seems to break realism completely. What better context than fantasy novels?

[ewert]

Yup, lots of armor usually is non-coolio in fantasy literature.

Conquistadors are usually almost always depicted as wearing a breastplate (and not much limb armor) though? And that is real life reference of non-superhuman-strengths. And in my recollection that breastplate goes for rank and file soldiers too. Might be wrong, probably am. Also the times had already passed heavy armor by that day due to firearms...

[Derakon]

Even breastplate over chain is something you carry in a cart or on a packhorse and only wear for an engagement, I would think. In the fantasy I read, even the superhuman warriors stick to light armor [if any] when adventuring.

I don't think that fantasy novels are all that great a source for realism. Heavy armor isn't cool, so fantasy protagonists don't tend to wear heavy armor. Whether or not it's practical, and whether or not you'd actually wear it a significant portion of the time, is beside the point.

That said, fantasy novels tend to be a pretty good source for fantasy videogames.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Just a funny thought- I can see my warrior approaching Morgoth in his tight spandex pants and spandex t-shirt with Mr.@ painted on the front as his supersymbol, and Morgoth dying due to heavy boughts of laughter.

[PowerDiver]

I think you are thinking of full plate mail type of armor, which is pretty nuts for walking humans in real life. Yeah they were sitting ducks if thrown down their horses. Then again these are fantasy people that have superhuman strengths..

Even breastplate over chain is something you carry in a cart or on a packhorse and only wear for an engagement, I would think. In the fantasy I read, even the superhuman warriors stick to light armor [if any] when adventuring.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Here's a dissenting view. Heavy armor is fine for knights with squires and horses. It makes no sense for an adventurer on foot. I'd love to see everything heavier than leather scale removed from the game, except DSM and mithril chain which should be lighter than leather scale.

I can agree with this, may be we need some special artifact,(Armor of the viking god Thor!)

[ewert]

I think you are thinking of full plate mail type of armor, which is pretty nuts for walking humans in real life. Yeah they were sitting ducks if thrown down their horses. Then again these are fantasy people that have superhuman strengths. But plenty of footed soldiers used breastplates of different kinds, and saying "breastplates" didn't mean they were unarmored elsewhere, there were chainmail / studded leather elsewhere often, it is just that the armor type was often referred to by the "best" part. FULL plate though, yeah, pretty much horses required for anything and even then not so long fighting ability ...

[PowerDiver]

Here's a dissenting view. Heavy armor is fine for knights with squires and horses. It makes no sense for an adventurer on foot. I'd love to see everything heavier than leather scale removed from the game, except DSM and mithril chain which should be lighter than leather scale.

[ewert]

Hmm, maybe a 1.5x increase in base armor. I have not checked the exact armor mechanics lately, but I definitely do see an advantage in shooting for high AC, even for ranged attacking characters (phase door can be damn risky sometimes, so sometimes it's safer to just duke it out head to head and take the hits). I remember thinking armor was quite useless for a very very long time. Now I feel that one just needs quite a lot of it but it really pays off. So yeah, maybe a 1.5x increase for starters to test it out?

I found the +50 armor defender artifact on my current mage char as my first artifact after a Paur*. I was like OMG, I love the new artifacts.

[Magnate]

I think there is a real question about balance, at the begining levels then sure a mage is not likely to don heavier armor due to low mana. To me though, it seems like at the ending levels, when every class gets maxed out on abilities, ie..strength, then it seems that even the mage can wear practicaly any armor he chooses, or any weapon for that matter. If you look at some end game builds for mages, they are equipped like warriors, and can be pretty devestating in melee. My question is, where does this leave the warrior? All he gets that distinguishes him from mage type classes is a few more hit points and strength, by end game. IMO- there should be armor only wearable by warrior classes, I don't quite find it justifiable to play a warrior, when mages are wielding The Great Axe of Eonwe and wearing the mithral plate mail of celeborn, along with the small shield of thorin.

Leaving aside the irritating ubiquity of Thorin, I think the problem is that heavy armour is not good enough. IMO the AC scale should be at least twice the length it is now - i.e. Adamantite Plate should have base AC 80 rather than 40. I haven't tested this, but knowing the combat formulae I suspect this would make a useful difference in combat without being unbalancing. It might actually encourage younger characters to wear heavy armour, though I guess low-AC ego armour will almost always be chosen over non-ego high-AC armour.

This is a slightly different issue to your point about mages ending up looking like warriors. I don't think anything will solve that until stat gain and clev are re-examined.

[Derakon]

I don't support enforcing class-specific gear. It's one of the things that always cheesed me off about games like Diablo 2, since it meant that there's a ton of droppable items that are unusable for your class. Unless you're suggesting that mage-specific armor just never be generated if you're playing as a warrior...which strikes me as incredibly hackish.

It's fine to tailor gear to specific playstyles, but if a warrior really wants to wear armor that increases INT and WIS, or a mage wants to increase STR and DEX, I say let 'im.

[miyazaki]

I think there is a real question about balance, at the begining levels then sure a mage is not likely to don heavier armor due to low mana. To me though, it seems like at the ending levels, when every class gets maxed out on abilities, ie..strength, then it seems that even the mage can wear practicaly any armor he chooses, or any weapon for that matter. If you look at some end game builds for mages, they are equipped like warriors, and can be pretty devestating in melee. My question is, where does this leave the warrior? All he gets that distinguishes him from mage type classes is a few more hit points and strength, by end game. IMO- there should be armor only wearable by warrior classes, I don't quite find it justifiable to play a warrior, when mages are wielding The Great Axe of Eonwe and wearing the mithral plate mail of celeborn, along with the small shield of thorin.

Well, warriors get an extra two blows compared to a mage. It is often said on this site that warriors start strong and finish weak, while mages start weak and finish strong. Personally, I don't have any complaints about all the classes wearing the same kit at the end of the game. The path they take to get there is definitely different.

[Malak Darkhunter]

I think there is a real question about balance, at the begining levels then sure a mage is not likely to don heavier armor due to low mana. To me though, it seems like at the ending levels, when every class gets maxed out on abilities, ie..strength, then it seems that even the mage can wear practicaly any armor he chooses, or any weapon for that matter. If you look at some end game builds for mages, they are equipped like warriors, and can be pretty devestating in melee. My question is, where does this leave the warrior? All he gets that distinguishes him from mage type classes is a few more hit points and strength, by end game. IMO- there should be armor only wearable by warrior classes, I don't quite find it justifiable to play a warrior, when mages are wielding The Great Axe of Eonwe and wearing the mithral plate mail of celeborn, along with the small shield of thorin.