Reducing Mandatory WoR

[PowerDiver]

I don't recall the last time I lost all my ?WoR.
Angband now supplies you with a single ?WoR at the start (which I think is a good change.) By hound depth, extra scrolls are easily affordable.

Since it's quite easy to avoid losing all your recall, I don't see how Recall is broken.

I agree with your conclusion entirely, but know that your argument does not apply!

I've run out of ?recall in the dungeon 2 of my last 4 chars. Once to incredibly bad luck, and the other time to a typo in a store [there is something strange where occasionally a keypress goes into the ether] left me with only 1 to read and 1 to carry, followed by moderately bad luck. It's kind of exciting wondering if you can kill enough to get ?recall before your torch burns out.

[stalza]

As a new player, I learned -- the hard way -- to carry extra ?WoR. That experience also demonstrated the value of extra food and stair detection.

From my limited perspective, a big part of Angband is about managing limited inventory and resources. Fewer choices require fewer decisions and make for a less challenging game.

[Pete Mack]

I've run out of ?recall in the dungeon 2 of my last 4 chars. Once to incredibly bad luck, and the other time to a typo in a store [there is something strange where occasionally a keypress goes into the ether] left me with only 1 to read and 1 to carry, followed by moderately bad luck. It's kind of exciting wondering if you can kill enough to get ?recall before your torch burns out.

So the exception proves the rule! Running out of recall on rare occasion is an exciting challenge, rather than a reason to grumble...

PS: I didn't say I don't ever run out of recall. I just don't remember the last time it happened...

[Hariolor]

thing is, if a solution like buzzkills or dm's were to be implemented, it wouldn't eliminate the need for ?recall at all. There are still many situations where having ?recall is really really useful as an escape:

• stats get drained by an unlucky encounter
  
  you find an artifact/ego weapon that synergizes with something else in your home and you want to go swap them out *now* before you die a stupid death
  
  you run out of food
  
  you run out of illumination
  
  your inventory is full and you're significantly slowed as a result, but you really would like to go sell things and resupply
  

now this being said, I've been playing O alot lately, and in comparison it's much harder. ?WoR costs two to three times as much, and characters don't start with it. As a result the first few dives are usually dedicated to getting enough money to buy even one, let alone a small stack.

So no, WoR's not broken, but the thread title did say "reducing mandatory", not "fixing"

[Magnate]

Somehow the multi-level shaft idea would make more sense to me (thematically) with persistent levels.
I don't see how this won't end up with massive stair scumming for a room that has another up-shaft, and/or having to traverse an entire boring level to find another up-shaft.
Why not combine recall and teleport scrolls, and let the player decide whether to tele on the same level, or visit another level (including town, current level -1, current level +1)?

I would much rather see shafts introduced than any shift- or ctrl- functionality for normal stairs. Shafts should be rare, and take you up or down somewhere between 2 and 5 levels.

I have run out of recall several times - I obviously don't carry enough. I've died about half the time and made it back or found another recall the other half.

[fizzix]

I can't say I have strong feelings on this. If I was to make recall less necessary, I'd do it by putting a recall point randomly on each level. It could work immediately or there could be a delay. Doesn't really matter.

[Nick]

I can't say I have strong feelings on this. If I was to make recall less necessary, I'd do it by putting a recall point randomly on each level.

I like this idea.

[Rizwan]

I am against it . Then no one would post YASD due to hunger

[Derakon]

Is hunger really an interesting issue outside of ironman, in which these hypothetical recall points wouldn't work anyway? Okay, yes, every once in a great while someone loses their scrolls and has a limited amount of time to make it back to the surface. I don't think that really happens often enough to make hunger an interesting mechanic in Angband.

[Nick]

I am against it . Then no one would post YASD due to hunger

They would if they couldn't find or couldn't reach the recall point.

[Donald Jonker]

Is hunger really an interesting issue outside of ironman, in which these hypothetical recall points wouldn't work anyway? Okay, yes, every once in a great while someone loses their scrolls and has a limited amount of time to make it back to the surface. I don't think that really happens often enough to make hunger an interesting mechanic in Angband.

Agreed. Hunger doesn't work in Angband as it does in other roguelikes. I don't think anyone seriously advocates putting in another reason to return to town just for the sake of it. (Running out of ?phase, !CCW, and other useful consumables is reason enough to either recall, or plunge deeper in ironman.) Same goes for light. It may be sort of interesting choosing between ego/artifact light sources, but consumable light isn't an interesting mechanic either.

[Colbey]

As an intermediate player, I don't think hunger by itself is "interesting", but all the "little" things together are. It's not that I've liked the times I've died from hunger, but I sort of like the experience of having to avoid dying from hunger, and lack of light, and bad traps, and heavy curses, and so on. I'm worried that the game experience is changing to eliminate all of these things. It should be hard for new players to dodge the "easy" things, because there are so many of them to dodge!

[Netbrian]

Is hunger really an interesting issue outside of ironman, in which these hypothetical recall points wouldn't work anyway? Okay, yes, every once in a great while someone loses their scrolls and has a limited amount of time to make it back to the surface. I don't think that really happens often enough to make hunger an interesting mechanic in Angband.

Honestly, I advocate getting rid of hunger altogether. All it does is make ironman players unhappy and inconvenience Warriors. If I run out of recall and am low on food, I just stairscum my way back to town.

[bron]

I'll agree that for the most part WoR, and hunger, and refillable light, are largely petty annoyances. But they do have the important and desirable indirect effect of consuming inventory slot(s), forcing you to think about what to do.

Indeed, I think it would be nice to have an aritifact that activated for "Satisfy Hunger". Not particularly exciting, but worth an inventory slot to the non-magic-using crowd.

[fph]

Indeed, I think it would be nice to have an aritifact that activated for "Satisfy Hunger". Not particularly exciting, but worth an inventory slot to the non-magic-using crowd.

What about a rod of satisfy hunger? Or adding satisfy hunger to restoration staves?