Newbie Player - Need Help

[Pete Mack]

How deep were you? Loot starts picking up after dl 5, and it rapidly gets better from there. Also, if you have 3 blows, you probably don't need a bow--enchanting your weapon to +5 or +7 damage will let you kill a single orc.

And always carry phase door and recall. If a monster starts killing you, run away. Also use CSW or CCW to cure confusion and blindness, and then run away.

[Hariolor]

Seriously, resist confusion at DL20? Free Action and See Invisible, sure, but I usually don't pick up anything with resist confusion till much much deeper, if at all.

Frankly if I don't have ESP and/or RConf, I find umber hulks and casters become too much of a pain. I haven't played a game in quite a while that hasn't given me Thengel pretty early on, so maybe I'm spoiled as far as RConf goes...

If I have been lucky enough to find a rod or two of TO by then, I might be more cavalier about diving way beyond depth. But that's not really good advice for someone new.

[tummychow]

rConf is a bit pushing it at such an early level. But anywayyy...
Chances are, you're just playing too aggressively. I was so conservative in my current character, I wasn't off of dlevel 5 for the first 15 levels. (No kidding.) Then I realized how dumb that was and I dove. That may explain why I never had much experience with Phase Door - then again, maybe I was just lucky.
On the other hand, it definitely sounds like you are being too aggresive. Don't be afraid to just wait and gather money until you can afford that key equipment, like phase scrolls. Those are the only way to survive for a *long* time. You don't need a shooter that early. Maybe dlevel 10 I'd say it starts coming in handy. I didn't take one until I found a really nice one at dlevel 20. Then I decided to pay a bit more attention to my ranged attacks.
In addition, most orcs aren't too tough. You're a rogue, so use your stealth to your advantage. I can't count how many swarms of jackals I assassinated in the first five levels of my character because they didn't wake up in time to save themselves. It's much easier to run as a rogue because you don't even have to get into a fight.
Play more conservatively, basically.

[PowerDiver]

Play more conservatively, basically.

Gah. That may or may not get you a little deeper in the short run, but it won't help you learn what you need to win the game.

The key is to learn something from each death. More quick useful deaths means faster learning!

Figure out how to start with 4 blows with a high elf warrior and play as aggressively as you can. When your pack fills with stuff to sell, ?recall and use the funds to buy a few ?recall and escapes and enchant weapon scrolls. When you get to the point where you are thinking, "if only I had spells for certain things" then you should switch to a rogue, but there is no point in playing a caster until you know what spells you really wish you knew how to cast.

[fizzix]

On the other hand, it definitely sounds like you are being too aggresive. Don't be afraid to just wait and gather money until you can afford that key equipment, like phase scrolls. Those are the only way to survive for a *long* time. You don't need a shooter that early. Maybe dlevel 10 I'd say it starts coming in handy. I didn't take one until I found a really nice one at dlevel 20.

I don't agree with this. Humans are not robots, we get bored easily. Running around on a level mindlessly slaughtering things that are too easy for you makes you pick up bad habits. You are only going to remember the good habits, like detections, avoiding dangerous monsters, and teleporting several turns *before* you are in a life-threatening situation by putting yourself into situations where those very tactics are necessary for survival often. It's also a lot less frustrating to die on dlevel 10 after playing for 30 minutes than after playing for 6 hours.

I don't think the problem is being too aggressive. The problem is more likely making bad probabilistic choices. The only way to learn good probabilistic choices is to put yourself in situations where you have to make them more often.

[Nick]

The key is to learn something from each death.

This is the important fact in this thread.

How conservatively you play depends on what works for you - there are winners using every strategy from ultra-conservative to ultra-aggressive. But if you keep dying from the same things, it means you aren't thinking enough about why you died.

[Sirridan]

Here's an idea, keep a death log.

Things to put in it:
1. What killed you and what level
2. Your health / resists at that point (including free action, see invis)
3. What you were doing (probably stupidly) such as holding an arrow key, not paying attention, playing while tired.
4. Could you have escaped? (Did you have scrolls/staves/other escapes or healing?)
5. What should I do differently? (More escapes, slower dives, more consumables etc.)

[Bagplant]

As soon as you can afford them, buy a stack of phase door scrolls and a stack of healing potions (best kind you can afford). Get a missile weapon and ammo once you are able - they will eventually show up in the dungeon if they're not for sale in town. Get a staff of teleportation as soon as you can afford it. If you see any teleportation or teleport level scrolls for sale in the black market, buy them. Enchant your weapon using scrolls from the store, both your melee weapon and your missile launcher once you have one - or swap them for better ones, which you will often find in the dungeon.

Best money source in the early game is usually selling enchanted weapons or armor (in 3.1.1 you can easily identify them by equipping and using them) or wands or staves, which can generally be IDed by trying them out. Unidentified potions and scrolls can be sold to stores - you won't get much but you will recognize that item type if it drops again.

Play to your strengths and base your strategy around what you find. Got a wand or rod of light? Look for groups of light-sensitive orcs like cave orcs or snaga, and fight them in long corridors. If you're stealthy and have ranged attacks, wake up one monster at a time and lure them away from the group to be killed. Wands of sleep monster can often be used in narrow corridors to stop pursuit. Wands of wonder are risky but can be an effective way of killing tough enemies.

Use detect monsters in combination with detect treasure/objects (a spell only available to rogues!) to avoid dangerous fights and pick up unguarded or poorly guarded loot.

If you're not already, start your new characters from the old save file - this will ensure you build up a good monster memory. Eventually you will learn which monsters you can beat easily, which are borderline and which are likely to defeat you. Don't be afraid to avoid monsters in the latter category entirely, or run from them even if you're on full health. (Incidentally, until you have a ranged weapon and/or appropriate wands I would put most orcs in this category).

[Pete Mack]

I agree with Eddie: if you can't make it to cl 15, play high-elf warrior. Detection for rogue and ranger isn't very useful until after cl 10

[tummychow]

Uhh, I wouldn't advise just putting on weapons to check their enchantment level. Morgul weapons can appear at any level, they really suck and the heavy curse is difficult to dispel for a long time.
Btw, I wouldn't say detection is useless for rogue and ranger in the early levels, it's just not great. I didn't use it much because the idea never occured to me. But I find it quite useful. (I use it a lot in the clevel 30s.)

[PowerDiver]

Uhh, I wouldn't advise just putting on weapons to check their enchantment level. Morgul weapons can appear at any level, they really suck and the heavy curse is difficult to dispel for a long time.)

Let's assume that wielding the morgul weapon means death. That still doesn't mean it is wrong to test-wield. Resting is dangerous. Recall is dangerous. Using id scrolls instead of spending the money on something else is dangerous. You need to compare the risks.

I wouldn't worry about testing weapons until I lost enough chars to it that I viewed it as a leak in my game. Now I don't suggest you test immediately. Wait until your pack is filling up and you know you will need slots soon, hoping for pseudo. However, IMO it is better to test than to rest or to squander ?id.

[miyazaki]

Let's assume that wielding the morgul weapon means death. That still doesn't mean it is wrong to test-wield. Resting is dangerous. Recall is dangerous. Using id scrolls instead of spending the money on something else is dangerous. You need to compare the risks.

I wouldn't worry about testing weapons until I lost enough chars to it that I viewed it as a leak in my game. Now I don't suggest you test immediately. Wait until your pack is filling up and you know you will need slots soon, hoping for pseudo. However, IMO it is better to test than to rest or to squander ?id.

i played 53 ironman characters in a row before i beat the game. I had very limited access to identify scrolls/spells, especially at the beginning of the game. Of those characters, only one was killed by a morgul weapon. That's one weapon amongst thousands that I test-wielded...