What's a good class to try and win first time in V

[Jude]

I've been playing Zangband for like 7 or 8 years now and the furthest down I've gotten is about dlvl 40. I've also been getting into Z+ but I'd kind of like to give Vanilla a try.

Basically, what is a good race-class combination for a first time Vanilla player, considering that I would like to actually have a shot at winning? I was used to being a Chaos-Warrior in Z, which is sort of like a Paladin but with destructive magic and random bonuses (or curses) every time you level up. Would a Paladin be good for a similar playing style?

I am always reluctant to use the High Elf and Dunadan races because of the EXP penalty...I used to play as a vampire in Z until I got sick of taking so long to level up but maybe that's dumb. What do you think?

[Sirridan]

Rogue, Paladin, Warrior would be good choices.

Highelf or Dunadan are the best races as well, the 180/200% penalty isn't noticeable really until the higher levels, and even up there, you'll be 1-3 levels behind a human or so due to the nature of the XP curve.

If you can get passed the initial few levels which are a pain, a priest is also very good, especially once you get some good wisdom... the heals are quite nice.

[Donald Jonker]

High-Elves are IMO the best newbie race for the great stats and SI. Slow leveling isn't a big deal since you'll actually live to see those higher levels. Most folks go with High-Elf Rogues due to good stealth + detection/utility and solid melee. Very easy early and midgame.

Rangers have the highest damage output so they're a close second. Their utility spells are a bit costly, however. I find arrow lobbing to be a bit tedious (since you don't have automatic multiple shots), but YMMV.

Dwarf Priests are apparently the best at endgame, on account of unlimited healing, banishment, &c, but they're very difficult to get going in the early game. Their stealth isn't very good, and IIRC they can no longer get 5 blows, but nonetheless once you can cast Orb of Draining reliably, you're golden.

Edit: Ah yes, warriors. They're probably best for learning and getting deep, but maybe not for winning. Especially since endgame consumables are rare in recent versions of the game, warriors have taken a hit. But up till then, you'll be able to melt anything you come across.

[Jude]

Thanks! Could you guys explicate a little more on what it is that makes those classes easier to play? (i.e., I understand that having "unlimited healing" would be an awesome thing but what are some other dynamics of priests? What style of play is a rogue, anyway - sort of a fighter-mage?

[Magnate]

Thanks! Could you guys explicate a little more on what it is that makes those classes easier to play? (i.e., I understand that having "unlimited healing" would be an awesome thing but what are some other dynamics of priests? What style of play is a rogue, anyway - sort of a fighter-mage?

No, more like a ninja. A rogue can kill with either melee or missiles (not as easily as a warrior or a ranger, respectively, but otherwise easily enough), but the rogue's great advantage is that s/he doesn't have to fight anything s/he doesn't want to. Angband is basically a tactical game - there is very little strategy and even less role-playing - and stealth provides one of the biggest tactical advantages. So with the exception of the infuriating always-awake hounds with their insane detection radius, you pretty much get to kill what you want, when you want. So you pick easy kills with good drops.

Or so the theory goes. I tend to find myself diving too fast and unable to kill anything, but never mind.

Try a High-Elf rogue first and tell us how you get on. If that's too easy, try a kobold or hobbit rogue (much more fragile, but even more stealthy).

Good luck,

CC (who converted to rogues a year or two ago after a long affair with paladins who tried to kill everything)

[Jude]

Sounds interesting. I've always played as the "tried to kill everything" variety up till now.

[Zikke]

My current project is a paladin right now. They are basically a tank warrior but with a ton of detects, heals, and other super useful spells.

I also advocate warriors (2 of my 3 wins were with warriors). They can plow through legions of baddies and you'll get plenty of devices for late-game teleports, heals, etc.

[Magnate]

Sounds interesting. I've always played as the "tried to kill everything" variety up till now.

I used to do that too - it was fun but ultimately frustrating. I stopped when (among other things) I realised that nobody has ever won without leaving at least some monsters unkilled. I don't think it would be possible.

[PowerDiver]

I used to do that too - it was fun but ultimately frustrating. I stopped when (among other things) I realised that nobody has ever won without leaving at least some monsters unkilled. I don't think it would be possible.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.angband/browse_frm/thread/5cf3e59e27882e61/67ae55d9808eac1a?lnk=gst&q=yawp+paladin+ironman#67ae55d9808eac1a

[Magnate]

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.g...ae55d9808eac1a

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that one. Sorry. I guess leaving uniques alive on a level is ok given that you kill them eventually.

Funny that it was a paladin. I too thought (think) they'd be best for killing everything.

[Malak Darkhunter]

I've won the game several times with a dwarf priest, the middle levels are the hardest to get past. My current project is a Dwarven rogue, I'm basically playing him like a warrior but with detection spells, and teleport abilities. Is so far a good class combination as every ability is pretty high, along with high hit points and melee damage.

[PowerDiver]

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that one. Sorry. I guess leaving uniques alive on a level is ok given that you kill them eventually.

Well, it doesn't really count, but it suggests that in principle killing everything should be possible.

[Mondkalb]

My winners so far are two Dunadan paladins, one HE ranger and one HE rogue.

If you choose a class with good CON and high HP die, Paladins offer some advantages. They can start with three blows with a light weapon. They can kill pretty much everything on the first few levels and together with casting spells they will gain levels very fast regardless of XP penalty.

With Dunadan it can be painful if you have trouble to find an SI item and encounter lots of moaning spirits. (I usually have that trouble, unless playing a High-Elf; in this case the RNG drowns me in SI items. )

[Donald Jonker]

With Dunadan it can be painful if you have trouble to find an SI item and encounter lots of moaning spirits. (I usually have that trouble, unless playing a High-Elf; in this case the RNG drowns me in SI items. )

Decent visibility's always a problem for me w/ dunadans. Even dwarfs get good infravision so you can peer into the darkness and don't necessarily have to illuminate every single room. That's a maddening inconvenience not worth the stat boost, IMO.

[Marble Dice]

The XP penalty really doesn't make much of a difference, you'll still get to 50, just a little slower. The real power comes from your items anyway. My thoughts on the classes for an "easy" victory:

1. Ranger (High Elf): Decent HP, decent melee, awesome damage output via archery. Gets extra shots/turn at 20 and 40. Magic spells for support - phase door, teleport, identify, detect monsters/invis/doors+stairs+traps, etc. Starts out strong, ends strong. I choose High Elf for see invis and good stats.

2. Rogue (High Elf): Good HP, second best melee, and decent archery. Best stealth allows you to avoid fights, and they also have supporting magic spells, although they get them slower than rangers.

3. Paladin (Dwarf): Good HP, good melee, some support prayers - detect evil/doors+stairs+traps, portal, and most importantly healing spells. Poor stealth means you're gonna be fighting a lot. I go with Dwarf for good HP and resist blind.

Warriors are powerful but I don't like them because they have to find or buy their eyes (no detection magic). Mages and priests are good but very fragile and/or hard to get past stat gain.