Spoilers updated for Vanilla 3.0.8!

[Big Al]

I don't see why your spoilers should be any different - they actually not contain any code copy-pasted from Angband.

Part of the concern here, perhaps, is the fact that some of the spoilers were made from code copy-pasted from Angband. Things like the monster info, artifact info, etc are automatically generated by the program, not written by Hugo or anyone else.

I'd put a line in the spoilers along the lines of "I, the author of these spoiler files, do not object to them being distributed as long as [Hugo's previously stated criteria are met].", rather than "I allow them to be distributed under [some license]". But then again, I know little more than anyone about these matters.

[takkaria]

Part of the concern here, perhaps, is the fact that some of the spoilers were made from code copy-pasted from Angband. Things like the monster info, artifact info, etc are automatically generated by the program, not written by Hugo or anyone else.

Auto-generated things are copyright the same way that the edit files are, since they're essentially derivative works, displaying the same information in a different way. Thus, I believe the GPL or Angband licences would apply to them.

[Nolendil]

HINT : Skip to the last paragraph if you don't want to bother with useless licensing debate

I don't exactly see how the help files could be distributed under the GPL (as I assume they will) and not the spoilers.
However, The GNU Free Documentation License might be more appropriate.

Hugo, I think stating that "unmodified versions should not be sold for money" might cause trouble with the GPL and more generally about allowing them to be distributed with Angband (e.g. when a Linux distribution is sold, which is allowed, you will be allowed to include Angband - when it is finally GPLed - but not the spoilers).
I myself have trouble about this kind of clause as I wouldn't like personal projects to be sold by companies for profit but still allow people to distribute them with a reasonable fee to cover the service. The Parallels/Wine incident made me think about fair use of open source projects in commercial products and I can't say I'm really satisfied with how GPL works.

A bit off topic, the GPL v3 has been released.
Andrew, you might want to consider it for the Open Source Initiative.
As it's not compatible with version 2 and as I don't know if the Open Source Initiative asked for which version people agreed to release their contribution, it might (or not) cause legal troubles and you probably don't want to go through all the process again.
Maybe it would have been better to ask people to give you the right to choose whatever license as long as it meets some criteria but it's too late to complain.


Anyway, I have only read small parts of these licenses and still don't understand a lot about them or copyrights. I don't know what are the bad sides of each but I know there are.
In the end, I don't really care about the spoiler license (sorry for bringing up the topic in the first place ). What I'd really want is a way to find them easily.
So, what about putting the suggested dummy "spoiler.hlp" file with the link to Hugo's site until the license question is resolved or dropped?

[pav]

GPLv3 is like a huge step in the wrong direction. We fear it.

I hope takka was clever enough to seek permission to relicense the code under "GPLv2 and newer", as is customary. Then there's no issue with GPLv3, you can use Angband under it if you want. Only if you would want to strip users out of priviledges that GPLv3 forbids and GPLv2 allows, you'd have to do the whole hoopla again.

[takkaria]

HINT : Skip to the last paragraph if you don't want to bother with useless licensing debate

I don't exactly see how the help files could be distributed under the GPL (as I assume they will) and not the spoilers.
However, The GNU Free Documentation License might be more appropriate.

The GFDL is intended for written/published material. The current help files are licenced under the GPL/Angband licences, since that is the licence of the whole distribution. Leon Marrick's help files are under a copyleft licence which I'm not amazingly fond of... I don't know what to do here, really. I would like the docs under the GPL, really.

A bit off topic, the GPL v3 has been released.
Andrew, you might want to consider it for the Open Source Initiative.

I asked for GPLv2 or later. Everyone gave permission under those terms, but I'm not sure *I* want to... there are questions over the Freeness of the GPLv3, and I've not had any chance to read it fully yet.

Anyway, I have only read small parts of these licenses and still don't understand a lot about them or copyrights. I don't know what are the bad sides of each but I know there are.
In the end, I don't really care about the spoiler license (sorry for bringing up the topic in the first place ). What I'd really want is a way to find them easily.
So, what about putting the suggested dummy "spoiler.hlp" file with the link to Hugo's site until the license question is resolved or dropped?

I'm happy just to leave a link on the front page, and possibly a link in the accompanying documentation, really.

[andrewdoull]

So, what about putting the suggested dummy "spoiler.hlp" file with the link to Hugo's site until the license question is resolved or dropped?

I think this is fine. We already have a precedent where the 32x32 tiles are under a different license and should be distributed separately for those who are pedantic about not co-mingling licenses.

Andrew

[Nolendil]

I'm happy just to leave a link on the front page, and possibly a link in the accompanying documentation, really.

Ok, forget it.

[Hugo]

I'm happy just to leave a link on the front page, and possibly a link in the accompanying documentation, really.

Hi all,

Sorry for neglecting this thread the last days. Real life, and all that jazz.

I too think that adding a link is the best option. Not only because of the license issues, but also to prevent people from accidentally seeing things they'd rather not see - a warning in the fist spoiler menu will help a bit here, but there's also people like me who browse the directories and open files in the editor of choice, instead of struggling with Angband's limited searching and scrolling functionality. I don't want to put the same disclaimer at the start of each of the spoiler files.

If I don't forget it, I'll add some notes about copyrights and such to the spoiler files in a future update.

[Nick]

I asked for GPLv2 or later. Everyone gave permission under those terms, but I'm not sure *I* want to... there are questions over the Freeness of the GPLv3, and I've not had any chance to read it fully yet.

Feel free to use the McConnell Licence (which I'm making up as I type):

Do whatever you like with this code. If you try to make money from it or stop other people using it I and lots of other people will think you're an idiot.