Evaluation of activations [long, spoily]

[Magnate]

Hi folks,

The next set of improvements to randarts will be random activations - at the moment a randart simply inherits its parent artifact's activation (if any). More significantly, activations are not calculated as part of artifacts' overall power ratings, which means some significant activations come for free.

I'd like to gather views on which activations are worth how much. The scale we're working on is "equivalent damage per blow". Each non-damage-related attribute is rated according to how much damage it's worth trading for. Way back in 2001 when the randart code was rewritten, a long debate on rgra established the following values for resists and other abilities:

22 fire immunity
17 acid immunity
17 cold immunity
15 telepathy
14 elec immunity
14 resist poison
12 resist confusion
10 resist nether
10 resist chaos
10 resist disenchantment
 8 resist dark
 8 resist blindness
 7 free action
 7 resist sound
 6 hold life
 5 see invisible
 5 sustain strength
 5 resist nexus
 4 sustain dex
 4 resist shards
 4 regeneration
 3 sustain con
 3 resist fear
 3 resist light
 3 resist fire
 3 resist elec
 3 resist cold
 2 resist acid
 2 sustain int
 2 sustain wis
 1 feather fall
 1 permanent light
 1 blessed 
 0 sustain cha

Now, of course they're not perfect (hold life worth more than regen??), but it's what was agreed at the time, and this thread is not intended to be about reopening that debate (though I am up for doing that separately). I list them solely to put the following artifact power ratings into perspective. (The evaluation of pval-related attributes is complex, so I'll skip over them to save space.)

Here's how the existing artifacts come out according to the current evaluator. I've listed them by final power, with their max power in brackets (before deductions for curses, aggravation etc.). I've also listed their activation, if any, and for weapons their power in terms of pure damage, before any non-damage attributes are counted.

Morgoth       22074 (silly pval breaks calculator)
The One         315(373)BIZARRE
Bladeturner     180     RAGE_BLESS_RESIST
Vilya           174     HEAL2
Deathwreaker    153(183)                 (100)    
Grond           150(180)                 (154)                    
Ringil          129     COLD_BALL100     (55)        
Nenya           129     RESTORE_LIFE
Durin           129                      (47) 
Aule            125                      (71) 
Eonwe           125     LOSKILL          (48)         
Ulmo            114     TELE_OTHER       (44)                       
Anduril         107     FIRE_BOLT72      (35)                    
Erebor          107                      (35)             
Soulkeeper      104     HEAL2
Narya           100     PROTEVIL
Orome            98     STONE_TO_MUD     (42)     
Gondor           98     HEAL1
Fundin Bluecloak 98     DISPEL_EVIL      (35)                       
Dor-Lomin        96
Eowyn            96                      (38)                       
Thunderfist      96                      (48)            
Aeglos           94     COLD_BALL100     (51)         
Feanor           93     HASTE1
Thorin           93
Balli Stonehand  93                      (27)                       
Celeborn         88     BANISHMENT
Nain             84     STONE_TO_MUD     (31)                       
Olorin           84     PROBING          (37)              
Wrath            84                      (50)                
Sting            81                      (29)                       
Isildur          81     
Zarcuthra        80(110)                 (59)     
Numenor          80     
Gurthang         79                      (40)     
Angrist          74                      (27)                    
Rohirrim         74
Doomcaller       73(128)                 (74)         
Caspanion        72     DESTROY_TDOORS
Hurin            72     BERSERKER        (40)                
Avavir           70     RECALL           (29)     
Eorlingas        70                      (43)                       
Razorback        68(98) STAR_BALL
Belthronding     67                      (52)
Dal-i-thalion    65     REM_FEAR_POIS
Mediator         65(95) STAR_BALL
Pain             64                      (61)
Aglarang         64                      (29)
Gil-galad        63     STARLIGHT2
Cubragol         62                      (20)
Fingolfin        60     ARROW
Amras            59                      (41)
Maedhros         58                      (21)                       
Tuor             58     
Elessar          58     HEAL1
Amrod            58                      (28)
Haradekket       57                      (40)                       
Belegennon       57     TELE_PHASE
Bard             57                      (40)
Bloodspike       57                      (33)                
Mundwine         56                      (41)                       
Umbar            55(85) ARROW            (46)
Theoden          54     DRAIN_LIFE2      (18)                       
Crisdurian       54                      (43)                       
Arunruth         53     COLD_BOLT2       (23)                       
Azaghal          53                      (22)                     
Thalkettoth      52
Barukkheled      52                      (31)                       
Tulkas           51     HASTE2
Gondricam        51                      (15)
Turmil           50     DRAIN_LIFE1      (19)                    
Taratol          50     HASTE1           (29)             
Totila           50     CONFUSE2         (31)                  
Cambeleg         49
Celebrimbor      49
Osondir          48                      (27)                
Aeglin           48                      (29)            
Himring          48     PROTEVIL
Hammerhand       47(77)
Til-i-arc        46                      (25)     
Orcrist          46                      (28)         
Dwarves          44
Thror            44
Anarion          43
Arvedui          43     
Eriril           43     IDENTIFY         (17)  
Holhenneth       42     DETECT_ALL
Glamdring        41                      (28)         
Rilia            41     STINKING_CLOUD   (16)                
Nar-i-vagil      41                      (29)     
Nimloth          40                      (19)                    
Anguiriel        40                      (24)                   
Barahir          38
Belangil         38     COLD_BALL        (17)        
Ingwe            38     DISPEL_EVIL
Celegorm         38
Dagmor           37                      (31)                
Luthien          37     RESTORE_LIFE
Thranduil        37
Thingol          36     RECHARGE
Forasgil         35                      (24)                
Hithlomir        35     
Colluin          32     RESIST_ALL
Elvagil          31                      (15)                       
Thengel          29
Thrain           27     DETECT_ALL
Calris           26(69)                  (45)                     
Haradrim         26(56) BERSERKER       
Firestar         26     FIRE_BOLT72      (21)     
Lotharang        26     CURE_SERIOUS     (19)                       
Evenstar         24     RESTORE_LIFE
Dethanc          23     ELEC_BOLT        (19)             
Careth Asdriag   22                      (13)                       
Narthanc         22     FIRE_BOLT        (18)     
Thorongil        22
Nimthanc         21     COLD_BOLT        (17)         
Colannon         21     TELE_LONG
Cammithrim       19     MISSILE
Holcolleth       17     SLEEPII
Gothmog          17(81) FIRE_BALL        (43)     
Paurhach         16     FIRE_BOLT
Pauraegen        13     ELEC_BOLT
Paurnimmen       13     COLD_BOLT
Paurnen          12     ACID_BOLT
Carlammas        11     PROTEVIL
Elendil          10     MAPPING
Westernesse       9(54) CLAIRVOYANCE
Eol               5(35) MANA_BOLT
Galadriel         5     ILLUMINATION
Wormtongue        3(27) TELE_PHASE
Melkor           -4                      (41)                 
Gorlim          -19
Beruthiel       -31
Mormegil        -66                      (30)                 
Camlost         -89

Again, I'm not looking to debate how good or bad the calculator is overall (again, happy to do that separately). What I want to know is, how much is each activation worth? If we take a baseline of 1 for the crappy FOO_BOLT activations of the Paur* and *thancs, where would we end up? Is the 1000-point heal of Vilya and Soulkeeper worth 10? 15? Is the frost ball of Aeglos and Ringil worth more? Less? Etc.

I'm not really expecting anyone to come up with a full list. I'd just like comments about which activations you consistently use, and which ones you don't (and why not). Then I'll come back with a list, and a revised table of artifacts so we can see what difference it makes.

CC
(If anyone really wants to discuss evaluation more broadly, pls start a separate thread.)

[Zane314]

My playstyle is still shaking out how it uses activations, so this might not be a very useful post, but I figured I'd pitch in. I've found I use *ball and high bolt activates if I find them early, and then stop if my standard attack catches up at all (or if I find something better than that item to put in the slot).

Generally speaking I play mage/ranger/rogue and I don't care about turncount costs of resting, so I don't bother activating things I can cast with spells- it's not worth it to me to remember what I've got. Anything I _can't_ cast, though, I remember and activate all the time (clairvoyance, restore life levels, branding).

I suppose item activations are really just a rod that doesn't take up inventory, and the above is how I play with rods as well. I imagine other people who use rods more often/better than I do would have other opinions. But if that's the way I think about them, I'd imagine having the activates sorted/weighted by the sell value the equivalent rods have would be reasonable.

[Pete Mack]

FIRE_BRAND_BOLT 6 (this makes a huge difference in the midgame)
HEAL(1000) 5 (but discounted for extreme recharge time)
MASS BANISHMENT 6
CLAIRVOYANCE 5
BANISHMENT 5
HEAL(500) 4
RESISTANCE 5
DETECTION 4
HASTE_SELF 4
*IDENTIFY* 4 (you need this with randarts!)
MAPPING 3
IDENTIFY 2
ILLUMINATE 1
PROT EVIL 1
DISPEL_EVIL x5 1
PHASEDOOR 1
TELEPORTATION 2
RECHARGE 2 or 3

Damage activations (fireball, etc) are pretty useless, unless the recharge time is very short.


Cubragol, Ringil and Feanor seem undervalued in that list... And jewelry and gloves need a damage bonus as well (in V randarts, these are the most broken.)

[Nick]

(If anyone really wants to discuss evaluation more broadly, pls start a separate thread.)

You mean like I just did (well, didn't) on rgra?

[Magnate]

You mean like I just did (well, didn't) on rgra?

You mean the post where you suggested I look at the O/FA/NPP valuations? Yes, thanks for that - good idea. (Did I miss a separate thread??)

[Magnate]

FIRE_BRAND_BOLT 6 (this makes a huge difference in the midgame)

Which may be why it's been removed from Cubragol?

Cubragol, Ringil and Feanor seem undervalued in that list...

That suggests that the evaluation of speed is wrong. Again, this was debated fiercely - the table is in randart.c - but yes perhaps it needs boosting a bit.

And jewelry and gloves need a damage bonus as well (in V randarts, these are the most broken.)

The new code provides plenty of +hit/+dam boni on nonweapons - it's parsed as an ability like any other. In fact with randarts you're now likely to find them more often, because in the standard set they're largely concentrated on the rings of power.

CC

[Nick]

(Did I miss a separate thread??)

No, that was it.

[zaimoni]

Which may be why it's been removed from Cubragol?

The brand activation was replaced with auto-firebranding all shots at the "last moment". Bard likewise imparts dragon-slaying automatically.