When Should You Run from Uniques?

[Kooltone]

I'm a relatively new player, and I've never delved deeper than dl 30 without dying. I'm currently playing a dwarf blackguard, and I am getting very close to my high score by playing much more cautiously. I just ran into Old Man Willow for the first time. I'm tempted to fight him because of his juicy xp, but I doubt I have the resources to do it. I don't have any fire weapons on me, and based on a couple of probing swings it looks like his HP is huge.

At what point do you ignore a unique, and can you encounter them again later?

[Monkey Face]

To answer your last question first, yes, uniques will appear later on if you don't kill them.

As far as when to fight and when to run away, that is very dependent on your character and the individual unique. For example, if you're able to attack at a distance (via missiles or magic) and the unique can't attack you from a distance, you're more likely to want to take it on than if it is something that is shooting fire and cold and poison at you.

The other thing to remember is that most uniques would be out of depth at their native level if they were ordinary monsters. So they tend to be very tough to kill if you meet them at their native depth, but if you meet them later, they will be much easier. (For example, meeting Bullroarer is much tougher if you are character level 5 than if you are CL15.

[Sphara]

As far as reaching around dungeon levels 30-40 concern:

I don't think I have ever killed Lorgan by the time he first appears.

Mim is quite a bit easier, but he can still be very nasty unless I've found something like wands of drain life. I still more often than not postpone the fight for later.

Elemental lords (Quaker,Ariel,Waldern,Vargo) I kill in the endgame or not at all. They don't drop anything.

Gorlim and Kavlax are notorious murderers of countless new players, who challenge them without knowing what they do.

[Estie]

You kill uniques when its easy and the expected rewards are worth it.

As a new player, you dont know how hard it is to kill a specific unique - so experiment, use probing, read the monster files.

Old man willow can be hockey sticked, so with enough ranged power and a favourable map layout, its all but risk free. A good melee weapon and a !speed also works, just make sure you have enough potions that heal/cure confusion.

As an early blackguard, your melee is terrible and ranged is mediocre at best. So unless you have some exceptional early gear, avoid him.

[Kooltone]

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone. I found a spear with a flame brand. That gave me the confidence to challenge him, and Old Man Willow is no more.

[Nick]

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone. I found a spear with a flame brand. That gave me the confidence to challenge him, and Old Man Willow is no more.

Dead Man Willow

[Estie]

Dead men willowing dont wear plaid ?

[Ed_47569]

I'm a relatively new player, and I've never delved deeper than dl 30 without dying. I'm currently playing a dwarf blackguard, and I am getting very close to my high score by playing much more cautiously. I just ran into Old Man Willow for the first time. I'm tempted to fight him because of his juicy xp, but I doubt I have the resources to do it. I don't have any fire weapons on me, and based on a couple of probing swings it looks like his HP is huge.

At what point do you ignore a unique, and can you encounter them again later?

Having played since the late 1990s, there are still a few uniques I rarely engage with at all:

Tarrasque
Carcharoth
Huan
Ancalagon

Occasionally I will make an exception if I can muster enough elemental immunities, but even then they can be difficult and gobble up lots of Healing / *Healing* that I would rather save for the bosses.

Wiriun and Emperor Q only if I can get LoS abuse and shoot them.

[Estie]

Well the key to most of those is double resistance (Immunity is obviously better, but not required). With standarts, Colluin can be carried as swap (and discarded after the big uniques are dead).

Tarrasque is the easiest as you can just buy the potions from the alchemist. Ancalagon you want all 4 elements at 1/9, since he now "learns from his mistakes" or whatever the option is called that is now the default.

Huans shards hurt even with resistance; the one I avoid the most though is Carcharoth, since he is bound to find the one resistance hole you might have.

[Sky]

1. Make a hobbit rogue
2. find a Rod of Probing
3. boots of stealth, cloak of stealth
4. eventually armor and shield of elvenkind
4b. why not, rings of the mouse
5. literally enter a dungeon level, cast Detect Stairs, and go down
6. also read every Deep Descent you find
7. get to DL50+, it doesnt matter if you die, the steps above ^ should take you maybe 3 hours.
8. Probe everything. Find a big vault and mass-Probe every mob you see.

good work! now you have full Monster Memory and you can tell which uniques you should, and should not fight.

[Egavactip]

Over time, you will get a better sense of whether or not your current character a) can take out a unique at a given time and place and b) can do so without spending a lot in the way of consumables.

The more uniques you kill along the way, the fewer will come back to haunt you later in the game and the fewer can be summoned by someone like Morgoth.

But there are other considerations to keep in mind as well:

1. Reward ratio. Some uniques, like Draebor, are more likely to drop something good, and the sooner you kill them, the sooner you can get that loot.

2. Annoyance value. Some uniques, like Vargo, Quaker, et al, drop little or nothing, which is frustrating, but will continue to show up and screw with you until you kill them. I mention the 4 like Vargo in particular because they crush items and they frequently appear in vaults, etc., so by not killing them earlier, you might end up screwing yourself out of some good items. There are some uniques that are just better for you out of the game, period. Harowen is another example of this--he is just so really annoying that taking the time to get rid of him is often worth it.

3. Out of level difficulty. Although many uniques have a level at which they first normally appear that is reasonably consistent with the power the character is likely to have by the time they've reached that level, some uniques show up "early." If Kevlax shows up at his normal level, your character may well not yet be powerful enough to defeat him (though he doesn't have many HP, things like gravity can really hurt you). So in some cases, you are going to have to put up with a unique until you are at a point when you can deal with it.

4. Needing special gear. Mim, his kiddies, and Gorlim all have disenchantment, which can really hurt your key melee weapon if you don't have rDis. To take these on, I want to have either rDis, or a temporary weapon (sometimes I will just pick one up from the level I am on), or--the usual case--a ranged weapon that can take them out (Gorlim maybe not so much as the others, because he can hurt you at a distance). Harowen, because of his stealing and teleporting, is another one you can to fight at a distance--and you also need speed. Whatever Atlas is currently named, is sometimes another example. If you want to fight him without using a lot of consumables, doing it with a ranged weapon is usually the ticket. T

5. Being aware of when you have an advantage. Certain slays and certain immunities may mean it will be much easier to take on certain uniques than if you didn't have them. If you have the right gear, uniques you might otherwise avoid might be ripe for the taking.

6. Other situational awareness issues. Some uniques are just particularly risky to take on in open environments because they summon--Qlksjlkljlk;lklkljjlj or whatever his name is being the ultimate example. However, in an enclosed location, they are much easier to take out. Because Q+ can *only* summon, getting him in the right location might well be the easiest kill you'll make.

7. Think twice. Some uniques, like Huan, the Tarrasque, etc., are so powerful that they are dangerous no matter what your level and, even when you can kill them, may require a ton of consumables (typically healing) to do so. Generally, they are better to avoid or teleport. The "new" vortex unique, whatever its name, is great at killing your high level characters before you are even aware it is there, so I always avoid it (it is the one unique I really want eliminated from the game). I've only ever killed it once.

Of course, all this advice is also dependent on your goals. For some people killing uniques is one of the main ways they derive pleasure out of the game, and some people have as a goal killing all the uniques on their way down. There's no right or wrong way to do Angband, there's only the way that you like.

[sffp]

The ENEMY's GATE IS DOWN

When I was a young man, I made the naive assumption, that the goal in Angband was to kill every character I met - especially the uniques.

I assumed that each boss would be harder than the previous boss and I needed to kill them all.

There's a creature in the dungeon known as the Tarrasque. Try as I might, I could not kill the Tarrasque - I cheated, I replayed battles dozens of times. No good. I actually gave up Angband because of it (at least for a while)

Now, as an old man, I've finally learned the goal to the game. It's not to kill all the monsters on the way. They'll kill you. No, it's to get to the bottom while avoiding battle as much as possible. Or at least to choose the battles you can win that give you the best combo of XP/equipment

In the end, I did finally kill the Tarrasque - the only sensible way - AFTER I'd already killed Morgoth and won the game with Grond.

[mrfy]

When I was a young man, I made the naive assumption, that the goal in Angband was to kill every character I met - especially the uniques.

Now, as an old man, I've finally learned the goal to the game. It's not to kill all the monsters on the way. They'll kill you. No, it's to get to the bottom while avoiding battle as much as possible. Or at least to choose the battles you can win that give you the best combo of XP/equipment

I don't descend to Sauron's level until all the other uniques are dead. By that point if I've been successful, killing Sauron and Morgoth is usually not too difficult. I don't consider it to be a real win until they're all dead.

The Tarrasque is killable. But I normally play Rangers or Mages.

I agree with what Egavactip said above. Very well written.

[Pete Mack]

@sffp --
Classical Angband todo list:
1. Buy lantern
2. Kill sauron.
3. Kill morgoth
(4. Don't die)

[sffp]

I don't descend to Sauron's level until all the other uniques are dead. By that point if I've been successful, killing Sauron and Morgoth is usually not too difficult. I don't consider it to be a real win until they're all dead.

The Tarrasque is killable. But I normally play Rangers or Mages.

I agree with what Egavactip said above. Very well written.

Back in the day I played exclusively paladins.

inane battle-crazed paladins

"WARHAMMEERRRRR!!!!!!!"