RandArt light sources?

[hyperdex]

I've taken to playing with randarts (4.2.3) and like it a lot! I've had two characters advance to the point where I could accumulate a reasonable number of artifacts, and in both cases I generated randart torches and an Arkenstone. (Both Arkenstones were relatively early in the game, one when I was DL10 and the other DL20 or so.) In neither game did I get a Phial or a Star. (In one of the games I YASDed to Morgoth so I saw a lot of artifacts.)

This leads to two related questions...

In randart games, are we still guaranteed to have Phials, Stars, and Akenstone artifact light sources (in addition to possible lanterns and torches)?

If so, are the level requirements tweaked so that they don't necessarily occur when you would expect them?

[Selkie]

The number of randart light sources isn't consistent. Also you're not guaranteed to have an arkenstone equivalent. Some games you'll just fine a couple of phials with boosts to stats you don't need.

It's always worth checking the randart files on death and you'll start to build an appreciation of what is generated.

It can be frustrating playing with randarts sometimes but generally they will be better than the standart equivalents, especially in the later depths.

I only play randart because for better or worse it makes the games more fun.

[Bill Peterson]

I've played half a dozen characters with randarts lately and I've seen every artifact light source except a lantern. I'm sure that's just the rng. Yes, arkenstones and stars seem to show up earlier than they do with the standard artifacts. With the standard set light sources, in my experience, show up in the order torch-lantern-phial-star-arkenstone.

I just generated a few characters and used the debug commands to look at the artifact lights. It looks like you don't necessarily get all the usual light sources. One character had a star and three torches. Seems to generate 4 light sources of random types.

[Pete Mack]

The trouble with this is torches have a low max depth, so you are likely to miss all of them if you dive. Even star will top out around 60(?).

[Estie]

1. No not every type of light source is guaranteed. In fact it is rare to have an arkenstone, and I have had many games without a star, too. I remember one set which had 4 lanterns and nothing else.

2. Thanks to the max level function, artifact light sources (and sometimes other great items) cant appear past a certain depths. I have made a habit of spending time between levels 20-40 till I find one or more randart lights.

[Egavactip]

It's not that rare to have an Arkenstone. In one of the two games I'm currently playing, I found two different Arkenstones, as well as two other artifact light sources.

[Selkie]

It's not that rare to have an Arkenstone. In one of the two games I'm currently playing, I found two different Arkenstones, as well as two other artifact light sources.

It's more unlikely than it is likely. If you play standart then there's always one to be found.

[Estie]

It's not that rare to have an Arkenstone. In one of the two games I'm currently playing, I found two different Arkenstones, as well as two other artifact light sources.

In ~100 randart sets I have looked at, less than half had an arkenstone. I dont recall ever seeing 2.

[hyperdex]

Out of curiosity, what specific command can be used to dump the random artifacts? I didn't see it mentioned in the help files.

[Bill Peterson]

Make a throwaway character to use these, the game will be marked and you can't be a legitimate winner

Debug mode commands (preceeded by the debug-command prefix ^a):

space: ignore debug-command prefix, do nothing
": generate spoilers, do_cmd_spoilers()
?: help, do_cmd_wiz_help()
a: cure all, do_cmd_wiz_cure_all()
A: make the player powerful, do_cmd_wiz_advance()
b: teleport to target, do_cmd_wiz_bamf()
c: create any object, wiz_create_item(false)
C: Create an artifact, wiz_create_item(true)
d: detect everything (multiple calls to effect_simple)
D: test for disconnected dungeon, disconnect_stats()
e: edit character, do_cmd_wiz_change()
E: perform an effect, do_cmd_wiz_effect()
f: stats_collect()
F: do_cmd_wiz_features()
g: make 1-40 good objects, acquirement(..., false)
G: GF demo, wiz_proj_demo()
h: hitpoint rerating, do_cmd_rerate()
H: hit all monsters in LOS, effect_simple()
j: go up or down in the dungeon, do_cmd_wiz_jump()
l: learn about objects, do_cmd_wiz_learn(100)
L: do_cmd_keylog()
m: magic mapping, effect_simple(EF_MAP_AREA....
n: summon named monster
o: do_cmd_wiz_play
p: phase door, effect_simple(EF_TELEPORT, player, near
P: monster pit stats, pit_stats()
q: query the dungeon, do_cmd_wiz_query()
r: get full recall for a specific monster or all monsters
s: summon 1-40 random monsters, do_cmd_wiz_summon(n)
S: collect stats, stats_collect() [same as f]
t: teleport, effect_simple(EF_TELEPORT, player, far
T: make a trap
u: un-hide all monsters, effect_simple(EF_DETECT_VISIBLE_MONSTERS,
EF_DETECT_INVISBILE_MONSTERS
v: create 1-40 very good objects, acquirement(..., true)
V: create all items of a given tval
w: wizard light the level, wiz_light()
W: wipe recall for a specific monster or all monsters
x: increase experience
X: quit game without saving
z: banish monsters within a given sight distance
_: do_cmd_wiz_hack_nick()

[backwardsEric]

Besides the debug command or the spoiler option on the tombstone screen, the GCU/X11/SDL/SDL2 command line (i.e. not the Windows or Mac version) has an option to generate the spoilers as well. One way is

    angband -mspoil -- -p -a artifact.spo

which will write the artifact spoilers for the current character to artifact.spo in the same directory that character dumps are written (if you have multiple save files available, you can use a "-uName" option somewhere between angband and the -- to select the one to use).

[ewert]

Bit of a necro, but playing a randart game where I have only found 1 light randart. I have thought of this issue before as well.

How are artifact creation in drops handled, do artifact drops follow allocation max drop depth limitations on the base item? So if the randarts are torches, I won't ever find them deep down?

I went through the files and changed max level on torches and every wearable base item to 100 so I don't miss out on artefacts ... XD

[ewert]

After winning and looking at the spoilers file, it seems the randarts themselves have max levels, so would that max level make them unable to be created deep enough?

Personally I feel like no artifact should have a max level at all, feels weird and makes for a stupid "have to farm lvl 30 for lights if I don't have one yet to make sure I don't miss torches" ...

Replying to some of my own questions, if I go to the lib/user/archive and change the allocation to 127 on all artifacts, that will work for the current game to make them able to spawn at deeper depths right?

[backwardsEric]

After winning and looking at the spoilers file, it seems the randarts themselves have max levels, so would that max level make them unable to be created deep enough?

Personally I feel like no artifact should have a max level at all, feels weird and makes for a stupid "have to farm lvl 30 for lights if I don't have one yet to make sure I don't miss torches" ...

Replying to some of my own questions, if I go to the lib/user/archive and change the allocation to 127 on all artifacts, that will work for the current game to make them able to spawn at deeper depths right?

The maximum level listed for the artifact is one check that's enforced. For randart torches, there's another issue: to generate one, a standard torch has to be generated and then pass a roll to convert it into an artifact, and standard torches aren't generated deeper than level 40.