Sil 1.2

[BlueFish]

i just don't agree with that. i believe you have the early levels down, but you probably don't know how to deal with things that show up later yet (some of which got marginally harder). if you like the build by all means keep playing it, but i think if you got back to it after playing other types of characters you'd do better with it.

I've taken all three sils out before, thanks.

if cats are killing you, get some evasion, or crit resistance and will, or good offense and flanking/controlled retreat, or majesty or horns (never really used either), etc. you can always do smithing later.

My point was never about asking for tips, but thanks for your insights. I'm sure your heart is in the right place and you just want to help, rather than diminish an opinion you are uncomfortable with.

I'm glad I was single handedly able to increase your post count by 30% though. You're welcome.

Now maybe graduate to engaging in real discussion rather than flailing wildly about nothing. Or just be quiet, like usual.

[absolutego]

i just don't agree with that. i believe you have the early levels down, but you probably don't know how to deal with things that show up later yet (some of which got marginally harder). if you like the build by all means keep playing it, but i think if you got back to it after playing other types of characters you'd do better with it.

if cats are killing you, get some evasion, or crit resistance and will, or good offense and flanking/controlled retreat, or majesty or horns (never really used either), etc. you can always do smithing later.

[BlueFish]

I am not much of a smith player, but I noticed with a Nogrod you would basically get 1 whole point dexterity for free with a similar distribution. Played one recently with 4143 for hammer + channeling fun, although even 1 dexterity is harsh for me. (I am a big fan of hammers ever since the Hador competition.)

Nogrod can only do 4 1 4 2, not 4 1 4 3. I wanted to do a 4 strength build for axe thwacking fun (3d10 with this start after Power), and I didn't want to cut my grace down that much. I found the zero dex to be survivable after the first forge.

@absolutego: I sometimes commented that bluefish makes things hard for himself, but now I personally find more pleasure in trying weird stuff than repeating a working recipe.

Right, and that's related to my point, subtle though it may be, and similar sounding to whining though it may be. I find the difficulty increase in 1.2 to turn a build I used to find challenging and fun into something more challenging and less fun. It's just a datapoint, but something relevant enough to at least mention.

[absolutego]

only in his case i think that's the recipe and it ain't working

[taptap]

I've posted a couple times about it here before in the hopes of generating some discussion or other people trying it out. Belegost dwarf with 4 str, 0 dex, 4 con, 3 grace. No skill points spent till the first forge, where I spend 8 smithing and take weaponsmith, armoursmith, and artistry. Then make a 3d5 battle axe, a [-2, 2d4] corslet, and a -1 kite shield with 1d7 protection. No real set direction from there, though I do eventually continue to pursue smithing, through jeweler then artifice.

I am not much of a smith player, but I noticed with a Nogrod you would basically get 1 whole point dexterity for free with a similar distribution. Played one recently with 4143 for hammer + channeling fun, although even 1 dexterity is harsh for me. (I am a big fan of hammers ever since the Hador competition.)

@absolutego: I sometimes commented that bluefish makes things hard for himself, but now I personally find more pleasure in trying weird stuff than repeating a working recipe.

[absolutego]

well, that's an awful build. 0-dex chars are terrible (hell anything below 2 is) so of course you'll be having a hard time. you can make it bearable if you make decent armour with artistry, but why take weaponsmith so early?

i'd make better armour, take 3 str and some more dex (you can always take power or drop the shield), and that seems a reasonable start.

i shouldn't be the one to talk about smithing, but i bet you're just putting way too many points there.

[BlueFish]

and what is your build exactly

I've posted a couple times about it here before in the hopes of generating some discussion or other people trying it out. Belegost dwarf with 4 str, 0 dex, 4 con, 3 grace. No skill points spent till the first forge, where I spend 8 smithing and take weaponsmith, armoursmith, and artistry. Then make a 3d5 battle axe, a [-2, 2d4] corslet, and a -1 kite shield with 1d7 protection. No real set direction from there, though I do eventually continue to pursue smithing, through jeweler then artifice.

[absolutego]

and what is your build exactly
maybe dump some decent runs on the ladder?

[BlueFish]

Well, it's still a fantastic game. I should probably just go back to playing high elves or easier builds of dwarves.

I had settled on a build I found really fun in 1.1, and it was just viable - I knew I'd win eventually if I kept at it. 1.2 seems to have made that build non-viable, at least for me.

[half]

Am I the only one with the impression that 1.2 landed with a bit of a thud? It's just that it made the game so much harder. Interesting is good, but maybe keep it as accessible as it always was to the players, rather than catering to the gamers.

I got a sinking feeling when I saw that Dwarf with 20+ grace. Made me think 1.3 was going to be harder still. To counter whatever combination of gamesmanship and luck went into it.

We have no particular plans for making the game harder. We have a few more features we'd like to introduce and some tweaks to gameplay, but don't have particular feelings on easier/harder.

[taptap]

I got a sinking feeling when I saw that Dwarf with 20+ grace. Made me think 1.3 was going to be harder still. To counter whatever combination of gamesmanship and luck went into it.

I share that feeling at times, but in this case it is quite obvious that a lot ("at least a couple hundred") of attempts went into it and a fair share of that peak strength was acquired after the throne room.

[BlueFish]

Am I the only one with the impression that 1.2 landed with a bit of a thud? It's just that it made the game so much harder. Interesting is good, but maybe keep it as accessible as it always was to the players, rather than catering to the gamers.

I got a sinking feeling when I saw that Dwarf with 20+ grace. Made me think 1.3 was going to be harder still. To counter whatever combination of gamesmanship and luck went into it.

[BlueFish]

Anecdotal evidence strikes again. (Does ring quality depend on a roll that includes the depth?)

No ring in the game is as likely to be cursed as one you find at 50'.

I've started a game or three of Sil in my day, and I know this to be the case.

[absolutego]

it's not bad luck, i've noticed this too. i never equip 50' or 100' rings anymore, they are very often -1 damage. i'm not sure i understand how item generation works in sil (angband?) but i'm not a big fan, it feels very deterministic (mpa-sil actually auto-inscribes consumables with the depth...)

i'd be fine with getting rid of negatively enchanted things. ideally, cursed stuff would be more like treachery/vamp/fury. i tried to come up with alternatives for the other slots but it's not easy...

[half]

Anecdotal evidence strikes again. (Does ring quality depend on a roll that includes the depth?)

Yes, but I presume it uses the boosted depth, not the actual dungeon level, so I don't think this should make much of an effect.