Trumpet of Warning id by use?

[taptap]

For me the issue is that I usually need to use it more than once in a situation and I often don't have enough voice for that, so I need a digger too. With inventory so tight, I cannot justify a slot for both blasting and a digger.

The other trumpets only get carried until I can get the XP for identifying them or run out of slots for something I need. A shame really as I like the concept. Does *anyone* actually make use of them on a regular basis?

Terror, yes. I used blasting to take out silent watchers conveniently several times. But usually I suffer just as much from lack of free equipment slots as psi.

[debo]

I have... In my last game, it actually saved me a lot of grief on the ascent, as I was able to blow holes in things as V chased me around. Very useful to not have to waste a couple of turns for that.

Of course, I doubt you have many games at all where V is actually alive on the ascent

[Psi]

Of course, I doubt you have many games at all where V is actually alive on the ascent

Precisely 0. I am yet to experience the ascent with V in pursuit...

[half]

Incidentally, as a non-expert, are trumpets Tolkien-esque? I certainly remember horns in the books, but not trumpets. Or is it just a different translation for the same instrument?

I'm pretty sure there are a couple of uses. Fingolfin blows one at the gates of Angband to challenge Morgoth to single combat (presumably a Trumpet of Warning). I think they are also blown at Minas Tirith before the battle and perhaps elsewhere. I'm imagining straight trumpets, perhaps with a heraldic banner or the like.

[half]

Does *anyone* actually make use of them on a regular basis?

I definitely keep trumpets of blasting. Being able to make holes in walls at a distance is sometimes useful. I think using them as an escape is very useful, but I could be wrong.

I don't often use Thunder or Terror. I guess that Thunder should be pretty useful. Giving something -2 to all skills is actually pretty good (like getting +2 dex and +2 gra during the fight). I think this might be one of those things that people undervalue, but I wouldn't know for sure as I don't keep them... They should be excellent against Cat Warriors and Trolls (low Will), against some uniques etc.

I wonder whether Terror is too much overlap with the staff of Majesty. It feels to me like one or the other should probably not exist in a game as tight as Sil.

Warning definitely has some uses, but it doesn't need any as it is just there as the perilous item of that item kind.

[debo]

I find thunder or terror nice if I have them early, but they are often the first to go once inventory gets tight. I get a lot more use out of terror, though.

It is good when you're injured and you can't rest up by waiting in a corridor, because usually monsters will aggress and charge you at that point. I've saved myself a couple of times by simply waiting until they were all in the corridor and blasting terror in their direction. Majesty is more reliable and less situationally useful, though, and they both use the same skill anyways.

If I had to choose, I would obviously pick to have _Majesty over ?Terror in the game...

I'm also +1 to changing "Trumpet" to "Horn"

Edit: Forgot to mention -- I may be remembering this wrong, but I think I've used ?Terror a couple of times to get trolls off my back in a corridor. They generally never flee, but I think ?Terror (and _Majesty) can force them to run?

Edit2: Not sure what the min-depth and rarity is for ?Terror or ?Thunder, but they could be useful and fun if they started showing up with reasonably frequency in the very early game (even at 50'). Most will-based dudes won't have anything to do with the voice in the early game, and it might encourage people to invest a bit more in will early on. Also, many deaths happen in the early depths simply because you don't have any clever options yet, and this could be a hedge against that (a trumpet is by no means a sure escape, but it might give you the false hope that you have a way out

These horns could be superceded by staves in the late game. (I guess we could even bump majesty staves deeper if this happened, but now I'm just theorycrafting.)

[debo]

I definitely keep trumpets of blasting. Being able to make holes in walls at a distance is sometimes useful.

This is super useful for those quartz-y vaults where you have to dig your way in. It really helps to be far away from the vault when you blast it, so that you don't e.g. eat a great drake breath or get surrounded by a fast unique's pack on the next turn. The downside is that it's extremely noisy

[Psi]

I wasn't querying blasting as I can see a use for that (pre-Belegost at least), just terror and thunder. Most of my characters max out at 5 (inner light) or 6 (hardiness) in will so I never use the will based trumpet/staff effects. Even if I did, I don't see how I could have space for them amidst everything else I actually need to hang on to.

[debo]

I wasn't querying blasting as I can see a use for that (pre-Belegost at least), just terror and thunder. Most of my characters max out at 5 (inner light) or 6 (hardiness) in will so I never use the will based trumpet/staff effects. Even if I did, I don't see how I could have space for them amidst everything else I actually need to hang on to.

That's why I thought it might be handy to make them show up very early.

You're going to buy will for inner light before shadow spiders anyways (probably), so it might encourage you to take those points earlier and spend less elsewhere just so you can scare dudes away / stun them, I dunno.

You could drop them later when inventory space gets very tight.

[Nick]

I'm pretty sure there are a couple of uses. Fingolfin blows one at the gates of Angband to challenge Morgoth to single combat (presumably a Trumpet of Warning). I think they are also blown at Minas Tirith before the battle and perhaps elsewhere. I'm imagining straight trumpets, perhaps with a heraldic banner or the like.

Fingolfin blows a horn (sometimes a silver horn), but there were definitely trumpets at Minas Tirith (to sound the sortie of Imrahil to relieve Faramir, for example).

[debo]

The problem with a trumpet is that you can't go home and drink mead out of it after the battle is won....

[half]

Fingolfin blows a horn (sometimes a silver horn), but there were definitely trumpets at Minas Tirith (to sound the sortie of Imrahil to relieve Faramir, for example).

Thanks for that. It seems that Fingolfin's people sounded (silver) trumpets at the rising of the moon and in challenge to Morgoth (which he didn't answer), though the word 'horn' is indeed used for the 'successful' challenge.

I may well switch to horn for Sil and change some of the item materials. 'Horn' seems like the broader term that can include trumpets as well as animal-based horns. Still not quite sure.

[taptap]

@debo: Trolls never flee even with already negative confidence unless hit by a magical fear effect. Elbereth (when you have other confidence reducing but not actual fear effects) is very binary against them afair, they flee the moment you turn it on but turn back towards you the moment you stop.

I wonder why the effect of trumpets is linear btw. I used to play the trombone and feel the effect should be more area-affecting (not like the staff but like 90 degrees at once maybe).

[Scatha]

Unwearied then were Durin's folk;
Beneath the mountains music woke:
The harpers harped, the minstrels sang,
And at the gates the trumpets rang.

Horns and trumpets definitely both appear in Tolkien's works, but overall I think 'horn' would be slightly better because we see individuals carrying and using them, whereas trumpets are more frequently associated with grandeur and situations with many people. It would have the added advantage of not making some people think of (highly incongruous) modern trumpets, but the disadvantage of needing a rethink of the material types.

[debo]

Horns and trumpets definitely both appear in Tolkien's works, but overall I think 'horn' would be slightly better because we see individuals carrying and using them, whereas trumpets are more frequently associated with grandeur and situations with many people. It would have the added advantage of not making some people think of (highly incongruous) modern trumpets, but the disadvantage of needing a rethink of the material types.

Materials could be replaced with other adjectives ("An etched horn", "A tapered horn", "A long horn"). You would probably want to use adjectives that don't suck as badly as mine do though

@debo: Trolls never flee even with already negative confidence unless hit by a magical fear effect. Elbereth (when you have other confidence reducing but not actual fear effects) is very binary against them afair, they flee the moment you turn it on but turn back towards you the moment you stop.

Thanks, I wasn't sure about that.

I wonder why the effect of trumpets is linear btw. I used to play the trombone and feel the effect should be more area-affecting (not like the staff but like 90 degrees at once maybe).

Or perhaps a cone, like dragon breath?