Sil: compilation of annoying deaths

[Derakon]

Speaking, again, as someone who has yet to play Sil (), it sounds like debo and taptap have a fundamentally different approach to the game from BlueFish. All three of you have plans for how you want to build your character, but it seems like BlueFish really wants to stick to that plan come hell or high water, while debo and taptap are more willing to abandon it if things go poorly. BlueFish's approach could easily make the game more frustrating (since something that would "derail" a normal character from the Plan will instead "defeat" them), especially when going for more marginal/gimmick builds.

I'm not saying that BlueFish is playing the game wrong, merely that his chosen way to play makes some obstacles more frustrating than they are for other players. Apologies if I've mischaracterized anyone or if this armchair analysis is bogus.

[debo]

FWIW the worst part about early con drain is archers, IMO. The 50% evasion penalty makes this murder for anyone who isn't a phantom or a turtle at that depth, unless one has really learned to game the AI (and even this helps only so much against large groups of them.)

[debo]

Early con drain is tricky and annoying but not impossible. I don't mind it.

Playing late game with low con is super not-fun unless you have some other trick up your sleeve to cushion mistakes (eg stealth or lorien or mastery or ...) Sure it's possible, but the sheer variability of everything in lategame means my straight bruiser-types really want at least 4 unbuffed Con - preferably 6 if it can be arranged-

[taptap]

Seriously, why Con? Clearly the most survivable stat drain would be Grace. Why not grace so early in the game? Maybe nether worm masses should drain Con and purple molds should drain Grace. The "easy" race even starts with Grace restoration consumables. How perfect is that?

Purple molds make no sense on many levels.

Since I started to win the game from time to time constitution looks increasingly like dead weight to me. It is somewhat necessary, but it adds little to your performance (unless you are going strength in adversity) just more tolerance for mistakes. I am quite proud of winning with 0 constitution once (mostly pacifist) and my first winner ever had 3 constitution at start ("hunter" build). My personal heroine, however, is Gonelin, the number 3 on the ladder, an Haleth girl starting with CON 2 and killing Morgoth in melee and record speed.

I died many deaths with smiths that insisted on clearing forges when they couldn't do it. The right decision is almost always to abandon the forge, even if it hurts badly as leaving the greatest forge of all surely has to do. But fighting a violet mold out of stubbornness without even realizing it was your choice to do so and to complain after the fact, I don't know. My latest char had to abandon the first forge on which I relied as an archer for the first bow and arrows (just white wolves and me without any armour so far). It hurts but it isn't the end. And yes, even being drained isn't the end. I doubt there is a char that can make it with 49 hp, that can't just as well do it with 41 hp + some additional care for a while. As an added benefit you have the chance to identify restoration herbs by use.

(sponsored by the mold protection fund)

[BlueFish]

Seriously, why Con? Clearly the most survivable stat drain would be Grace. Why not grace so early in the game? Maybe nether worm masses should drain Con and purple molds should drain Grace. The "easy" race even starts with Grace restoration consumables. How perfect is that?

Purple molds make no sense on many levels.

[BlueFish]

One thing that could be done with purple molds is to make them light-producing.

[BlueFish]

Well that's that. violet molds are now out of my game. I've said it before, this time it's real.

I briefly considered whether to just lower their will, but I realized that would only lower the random chance of ruining any given character.

Just painstakingly nursed a character to his second forge. Found it and it was 4 uses. Score. Fun. Decided to explore the rest of the level before I started forging stuff. Got dinged by a purple mold in a corridor. This is a character with 3 starting grace and in which I'd invested a huge 4 points of will almost immediately, just to ward off purple molds. Eh. I'm done with it. THey occur too early. before any character can legitimately protect themselves against them, and far, far before any means of restoring the stat.

They'd be perfectly fine if Sil allowed stat drain to heal over time. They would be a great introduction to a potentially stressful and fun mechanic. But if Sil wants to take a hard line against that, and make stat drain permanent until restored by some consumable that won't be found till 500 ft or so, I can't countenance purple molds where they appear. They make no sense and they are not fun. You just end up playing games until you happen to play one where you avoid them randomly.

[BlueFish]

For the second time ever, I found "Orodruth" just now. That's the unique forge. Quite a find for a smithing character. I found it at 150 feet.

Adjacent to it was a purple mold. I'd found a shortbow but no arrows. No way to kill it from a distance. But this build has high Will (4 grace) and I spent every xp I had on further will, giving total 8 will. And I'd already built a nice 3d5 battle axe at my first forge, so I did good damage. I just had to melee the sucker.

Took me 5 turns to kill it. Got dinged twice.

Eventually died. -2 con is not survivable. But Orodruth was fun, in any case.

(I never ended up removing purple molds from my game. It's a decision I regret consistently. They make "challenge builds" challenging for all the wrong reasons.)

[BlueFish]

Died on the way up for the fist time tonight. Next time I presume to get all three sils, I'll make sure I have a staff of revelations. I won't be trying that again without one.

I killed V easily with one dwarf smith who had super-high evasion, dual wield, and riposte, with song of sharpness. I think the ability to kill V is pretty build dependent, though. I've been trying to do a more thematic dwarf smith, with big axes, no dual wield and lower evasion. Killing V seems problematic.

This last game where I died on the way up was pretty fun and new for me. I found the Mithril Helm of Ecthelion early, which gives 2 song and Song of Staying. It made me want to pursue a song build, based around Song of Mastery. I ended up taking ridiculous numbers of Song skills: slaying, aule, sharpness, woven themes, unwavering voice, grace. Mastery has prerequisites that I wasn't interested in and which would have pushed the number of Song skills way too far, so I knew I had to put it on an artifact. I made an amulet with +1 grace and Song of Mastery pretty early, probably at 500 feet or so. Mastery is definitely a game changer, but my build started out with 2 grace and I knew I needed way more than that. So I took all the grace points I could, from the end of the 3 trees it appears on. This crippled my melee and evasion and made the game pretty chancy all the way.

Made it through Chambers of Thu and Glaurung's lair without incident, through the throne room (didn't even come close to killing V) and up to about 700 feet before V killed me. Maybe if I'd been more careful I could have done it. Definitely could have if I'd had a staff of revelations. I lost one with 12 charges to Glaurung. I'll drop my nice staves next time before I fight him.

Sustain swaps become irrelevant in the endgame. That is to say, they're no longer swaps, they're core gear. Purple "v"s are too common, so you just have to keep your sustain stuff on. You really have to plan for sustain in your core gear rather than planning to make it a swap. I guess this is a use for smithing that is very nice. Sustains aren't too expensive in smithing, and they're highly customizable.

Eh. Successful game, relatively speaking. I won't take the "3 sil curse" lightly again. I'd made it out before under it, but had only tried once before now.

[BlueFish]

Yeah, I agree half. The time limit limits more than time - also limits frustration of deaths.

[half]

I'd never died to Thurinwethil before, and never really even noticed her.

That does sound cool. It might have been a bit sad though if you'd realised how to escape at the point where all your stats were so heavily drained that you needed about four stat potions in each of them. I guess the forced descent helps with this though -- it would be really awful if it just made you scum for ages, but if it leads to a very difficult throne room altercation which you then lose, that is less bad.

[BlueFish]

Had a really fun game last night. I was trolling 950' with the Great Axe of Nogrod, and over 100 hps unbuffed. But I only sustained con and str. I'd never died to Thurinwethil before, and never really even noticed her. She's always sort of melted before me when I've encountered her. Not this time. Drain grace has a snowballing effect which makes you less able to resist further draining. I died at -10 grace, I think, and negative numbers for all the rest of my stats too, even with the sustains.

It was only today that I realized that a Grace potion not only increases grace but gives you temporary grace sustain while the buff is active.

I think in the future, I'll probably make a Robe of Permanence when I can, as long as I have a restore mushroom on hand. One swap for sustain all seems like a good use of an inventory slot.

That was a strange game for the tiny number of dex potions I found. I think I found 3 all game, and I was just on the verge of 1000 being min-depth.

Also found Daillir early, the +11 arrow. Not too useful for a dwarf smith, but still fun. Good for dragonflies.

Actually a really fun game, and not too frustrating a death. I'd never even noticed that vampire before and I have a new respect for her.

[BlueFish]

Surviving to that second forge in a slow-starting smithing build, only to find it guarded by gorcrows and purple worms. Killing the crows, and, eventually, the swarming worms, and ending up with negative 1 strength. Spending the next 20 minutes searching for a way to restore that strength, before inevitably dying.

[BlueFish]

Orodruth is an enchanted forge on steroids. It gives you a large bonus to your smithing skill when using it -- I don't remember the precise number bc I've only found it twice

I checked the source, it's +7 smithing.

It should be generated about 10% as often as an enchanted forge, though probably seen less since it'll likely often be generated without being seen, and from there it would never be generated again that game.

[debo]

My dwarven smith just found The Forge 'Orodruth' at 200 ft. I'm doing a slow-starter sort of build and I couldn't take the forge or even stay on the level. But I had to try, and of course died.

What's Orodruth? What would it have done for me?

Orodruth is an enchanted forge on steroids. It gives you a large bonus to your smithing skill when using it -- I don't remember the precise number bc I've only found it twice