Sil: What are your least liked features of Sil?

[BlueFish]

It's that checking the weight of the starting sword takes a couple seconds, and restarting takes another 3 or so. The ratio of importance vs time wasted is very large. I think over half starting swords are 4 lbs or more, so it doesn't take many tries. There is no analog to random starting equipment. If you restart till you get leather armor and boots on the first level, you'll waste a huge amount of time.

[debo]

I believe the average weight for curved swords is 4.0lb, so it makes sense to me to have the starting one always be 4.0lb.

I also would like the starting # of torches to be fixed at 3.

Neither of these is gamebreaking, just a little annoying imo, obviously it hasn't stopped me from enjoying the game re: concerns of awkwardness for certain builds, that's the point: curved swords are basically awkward for all builds, it's meant to be a suboptimal starting weapon imo -- just like in wolfenstein 3d when you start naked in your cell with a handgun from the dude you just mugged

[TJS]

Some weirdness when trying to open/close a door sometimes.

If a monster is in the doorway you will attack instead of just not closing the door. This is especially a problem when there are two doorways with a monster in one of them and the other one broken. If you try to close a door without realising the one you want is broken it will attack the monster in the other doorway. My last stealthy character died from this problem.

I also think it waits a turn if the door you try to close is broken.

[MarvinPA]

I believe the average weight for curved swords is 4.0lb, so it makes sense to me to have the starting one always be 4.0lb.

I also would like the starting # of torches to be fixed at 3.

Yeah, the reason for fixing it at 4.0 was that 4.0 is the average weight, not some kind of anti-low-strength-build conspiracy. :P

Obviously there are other examples of early randomness that have a much bigger impact on the game, but fixing the starting equipment is an unambiguous improvement as far as I'm concerned.

[taptap]

curved swords are basically awkward for all builds

it probably is a little bit more awkward for a 0 or 1 STR archer or fencer than for 2 or 3 STR brawler who is happy to wield a longsword for the first floors anyway. I resigned to the fact I will never have a spear or bow at start, but I am a bit puzzled that there is advocacy for 4 lb curved sword for rare 4 STR builds unwilling to invest in melee and evasion (extreme niche build?) but none for a humble spear (which would make the start a bit more equal for strong and weak alike).

maybe curved swords are my least liked item of Sil and I would much prefer a spear at start and remove curved swords altogether (spears are always 3 lb, so there would be no need to reroll for weight ). curved swords are as a rule inferior to longswords and have no other advantage over them which isn't the case for any other weapon in the game (apart from broken swords). it always feels a bit pathetic if you find a fine curved sword later with the stats of a normal longsword. if not forced to do so at start I would almost never bother to wield one of them. there is an useful broken sword artefact in the game, but no artefact curved sword. it also represents my least liked fantasy trope, although it is true to lore: the evil scimitar.

[Therem Harth]

Re the original topic, I feel that violet molds add a decidedly irritating, unfun aspect to the game. Actually they're most of the reason I haven't played Sil in ages.

BTW, completely OT:

the evil scimitar

I've always wondered about that. Is there a reason for this fantasy trope?

(I've noticed that axes and maces also seem to be typically "dishonorable" in European influenced high fantasy. Maybe because they were traditionally commoners' weapons?)

[Derakon]

I assume scimitars are associated with evil because they originated in the Middle East, i.e. the people that several Crusades were fought against. Hence they got a reputation in Europe as the weapon of choice for the Enemy.

Dunno about axes/maces though.

[taptap]

I've always wondered about that. Is there a reason for this fantasy trope?

(I've noticed that axes and maces also seem to be typically "dishonorable" in European influenced high fantasy. Maybe because they were traditionally commoners' weapons?)

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...nisterScimitar says crusades as well. I doubt this. I believe it is unlikely that such a bad reputation persists for hundreds of years when it is one of the main European melee weapons at the same time (for cavalry, in "academic" fencing and often the nascent police forces, i.e. prestige contexts). I would guess this is much more recent, mid-20th century or so. Others: Axes are probably barbarian in television, maces suffer from similarity to clubs and polearms see love only in Asia and Switzerland?

[Derakon]

Keep in mind that we have an awful lot of tapestries from the Crusades era depicting Muslim soldiers with scimitars. Hell, the Wikipedia article has a huge number of national flags from the Middle Easty, showing the scimitar. So the Muslim <-> scimitar relationship is strongly established, and even in these days we have a lot of people who have kneejerk "Muslim = evil" associations.

[BlueFish]

I am a bit puzzled that there is advocacy for 4 lb curved sword for rare 4 STR builds unwilling to invest in melee and evasion (extreme niche build?)

I have no idea why you'd characterize it that way. This isn't special pleading in service of some strange build. It's an extension of an established design principle - no randomness, but rather fixed average stats, for things at the start that people might find "optimal" to start over for.

but none for a humble spear (which would make the start a bit more equal for strong and weak alike).

That would be a separate issue, but you're free to advocate for it.

[BlueFish]

Re the original topic, I feel that violet molds add a decidedly irritating, unfun aspect to the game. Actually they're most of the reason I haven't played Sil in ages.

In my personal copy, I made violet molds glow, so you can see them in the dark. This balances them pretty well IMO. If you want to do this, go into lib\edit\monster.txt and change the last number in the I: line for Violet molds from 0 to 1.

[Infinitum]

As of right now, Sword Spiders. The combination of speed, accuracy and high (albeit random) damage means encountering one is essentially a tossup, esp. if it jumps you in the darkness away from corners. Just had one jump a Fingolfin warrior and happily chew through not only the full 49 Hp but 3 Orcish Liqours to boot without much I could do about it.

Fuckers are like the thunderdome on eight legs s'all I'm saying.

[wobbly]

As of right now, Sword Spiders. The combination of speed, accuracy and high (albeit random) damage means encountering one is essentially a tossup, esp. if it jumps you in the darkness away from corners. Just had one jump a Fingolfin warrior and happily chew through not only the full 49 Hp but 3 Orcish Liqours to boot without much I could do about it.

Fuckers are like the thunderdome on eight legs s'all I'm saying.

Playing high protection by any chance? I find they'll punch straight through mail of protection & a kite shield pretty easily if your evasion is too low. High evasion & high melee seems to work well on them. Best is a good light (or keen senses) & either a bow or stealth+a closed door. I tend to find that only 1 or 2 extra pts in melee/evasion or the right item(doriath weapon for instance) is the difference between very nasty & very easy for sword spiders.

[BlueFish]

Sword spiders are certainly an outlier spike in the melee combat difficulty curve, at 150 ft. And they are very very common. If I had to guess at their theoretical game design purpose, I'd guess that they're designed to teach the player that some monsters should be avoided rather than fought. Which is why they're designed to be avoidable. But the cases where they're not, can be pretty frustrating.

[half]

Sword spiders are certainly an outlier spike in the melee combat difficulty curve, at 150 ft. And they are very very common. If I had to guess at their theoretical game design purpose, I'd guess that they're designed to teach the player that some monsters should be avoided rather than fought. Which is why they're designed to be avoidable. But the cases where they're not, can be pretty frustrating.

The main design goals were to have a difficult creature, an interesting lone quick creature (most are in packs), to make spiders noticeable since they are so important in the lore. I think they are the most difficult creature for their depth (though some people have more trouble with orc archers). When I see them, I stop, take my hands off the keyboard and think. That is as intended. One additional technique to deal with them is a good attack. They have terrible protection (1d4) and not that much health (12d4).