Sil 1.1

[Psi]

On windows XP, the windows for damage rolls, equipment and such are empty. I'm sure this didn't happen before. Otherwise, congratulations on the release!
Also, Nick, time for a competition, right?

There are sometimes oddities with locks on the fonts when changing version. If you haven't rebooted since playing the previous version it is probably worth a go.

[Scatha]

Not for me. With smithing there is a breakpoint at 12 where you can make the rather desirable Round shield of Deflection [+2,1d3] and at 13 where you make =Accuracy(+2). After that You just want to get smithing as high as possible for making artefacts. With smithing times now so long, you cannot afford to waste time on stuff of limited use.

If this is correct, it sounds like we should reduce the smithing times a bit (or perhaps reduce them for non-artefacts). I'm not sure, though. If you make 20 items of average difficulty 20 over the game, that's 4,000 turns -- only about 15% of your limit. That shouldn't be a big impact on your game. Anyhow, let's see how this plays. I've had some success with characters without Artifice, too -- with Artistry, the items can get pretty good.

If that is the case then smithing scores will come right down which coupled with all the increased costs may make smithing a bit pointless. You need to be able to make kit considerably better than the standard artefacts to make up for the 20k+ XP invested in the smithing skill. But as you say, we'll see how it plays.

That's not exactly right. Smithing gives you versatility, so you can always be upgrading the slots with the weakest items (I'm not sure I've ever seen a character who had an artefact for every slot). For many characters by the endgame 20,000 experience is 5 points in melee and evasion, so if you can get 5 stat points better spread across your equipment you'll roughly be breaking even. And a more modest smithing investment would give a correspondingly modest goal to break even.

[Psi]

If this is correct, it sounds like we should reduce the smithing times a bit (or perhaps reduce them for non-artefacts). I'm not sure, though. If you make 20 items of average difficulty 20 over the game, that's 4,000 turns -- only about 15% of your limit. That shouldn't be a big impact on your game. Anyhow, let's see how this plays. I've had some success with characters without Artifice, too -- with Artistry, the items can get pretty good.

That's not exactly right. Smithing gives you versatility, so you can always be upgrading the slots with the weakest items (I'm not sure I've ever seen a character who had an artefact for every slot). For many characters by the endgame 20,000 experience is 5 points in melee and evasion, so if you can get 5 stat points better spread across your equipment you'll roughly be breaking even. And a more modest smithing investment would give a correspondingly modest goal to break even.

Don't worry, I'll go quiet when I've found a way to win big with a smith

Well... until it gets nerfed again.

[mtadd]

Macintosh version working?

I've tried downloading the Mac version of Sil 1.1 on Mac OSX 10.7 but can't get it to run, and don't see any errors in the system log.

[Derakon]

Don't worry, I'll go quiet when I've found a way to win big with a smith

Well... until it gets nerfed again.

Look at it this way -- because they keep nerfing the ways people use to win, the game stays challenging. Eventually you'll be down to trying to beat the entire thing armed only with a stick. At which point they'll nerf stealth builds.

[debo]

Look at it this way -- because they keep nerfing the ways people use to win, the game stays challenging. Eventually you'll be down to trying to beat the entire thing armed only with a stick. At which point they'll nerf stealth builds.

Hey -- sticks got a buff in this release! I've found some pretty awesome sceptres already

[half]

I've tried downloading the Mac version of Sil 1.1 on Mac OSX 10.7 but can't get it to run, and don't see any errors in the system log.

It should be working (and worked when I tested the downloaded version). Did you have any previous versions running on that machine? My machines are running 10.6.8, so I'm not certain about 10.7. Anyone else have ideas?

It is possible that this is the old "quits silently on startup" bug that has been there since launch, though that only seems to affect about 10% of Mac users and I hadn't heard of a previous version working and then one stopping working. It seemed to be all or nothing. Nick (of FA fame) had a go at debugging that but we didn't solve it.

[mtadd]

It should be working (and worked when I tested the downloaded version). Did you have any previous versions running on that machine? My machines are running 10.6.8, so I'm not certain about 10.7. Anyone else have ideas?

It is possible that this is the old "quits silently on startup" bug that has been there since launch, though that only seems to affect about 10% of Mac users and I hadn't heard of a previous version working and then one stopping working. It seemed to be all or nothing. Nick (of FA fame) had a go at debugging that but we didn't solve it.

I've had no problem with prior builds of Sil. I can run the windows version under Wine in the meantime. It looks like there's alot of API calls that have been deprecated as of 10.7 used in main-crb.c, so I'll see if I can port the angband cocoa implementation to the Sil codebase.

[T-Mick]

I know some people are probably upset with the changes to smithing, but I'm more inclined to try it now. Before, I never bothered with smithing, because I knew that I probably wouldn't find enough forges to make it worth my effort. Now that they're more common (And they most certainly are) a light investment seems like it would be worth my time.

[Philip]

One thing it'll help are my throwers, who will be able to periodically forge stuff. Throwing is really powerful, but I imagine that drops off later in the game, with higher monster evasion, higher protection leading to smaller, less damaging hits.

[myshkin]

I've tried downloading the Mac version of Sil 1.1 on Mac OSX 10.7 but can't get it to run, and don't see any errors in the system log.

On 10.6.8, I get, "The application cannot be opened because its executable is missing." However, I am using a case-sensitive filesystem. Renaming .../Sil.app/Contents/MacOS/sil to Sil or editing the Info.plist fixes that problem. Unfortunately, then it simply exits silently.
It appears that the call to GetNewMBar(128) fails in init_menubar(), because Sil.rsrc is a zero-length file. I don't know why the call to Rez is failing to create a valid resource file without reporting any errors.

[WaveMotion]

I like the new interface for Smithing, but the fact that it acts differently from the skills menu is a little unexpected; probably the two should be unified.

[Psi]

Now that they're more common (And they most certainly are)

That actually depends on your playstyle. Forges are half as common as they were, but you are now guaranteed them if they haven't been generated within a certain time period. Therefore if you play most of your game shallower where forges are less common, then you will see more than you did before because of the guaranteed ones, however if you spend more of your time deeper, then you will find less than you used to.

My current attempt took his first smithing points at 500' after finding a mithril longsword he could melt down into a Feanorian Lamp. Not attempted a build like this before

[clouded]

A thought I had while talking to some beginner players last night is that I don't really know what the easy-build-for-newbies is. It obviously used to be charge, but this version regardless of relative power, charge is much more complex. Explaining what charge actually does for you and how to utilise it requires a knowledge of weapon weights and how strength interacts with it, which while the manual/tutorial does a good job of explaining, a new player just wants to play the game rather than try to understand the mechanics. Another thing is that it disables the pack AI, which is an important thing in the game to figure out. So after thinking about it a little, I might actually say not to use charge for new players.

[Scatha]

That actually depends on your playstyle. Forges are half as common as they were, but you are now guaranteed them if they haven't been generated within a certain time period. Therefore if you play most of your game shallower where forges are less common, then you will see more than you did before because of the guaranteed ones, however if you spend more of your time deeper, then you will find less than you used to.

I certainly hope it turns out like this! The forge generation is meant to smooth the number of forges between games (some had a large number while others had almost none), but also between areas of the dungeon (there were not enough early in the game and too many in the deep parts of the dungeon). There are still more deeper down, but it will be less extreme than it used to be. (There are also still reasons to dive and get more of your forging done deeper: you will have more experience at that point.)