Sil 1.1

[debo]

This whole present thing has made me believe that the "start with a single artefact / cool item" mode would be a great mode / unlockable for Sil 1.2 (or whatever the version number will be).

There were a whole slew of artefacts that made me experiment with abilities that are usually not worth taking.

e.g. Glaive of the Sirion -- definitely persuaded me to take polearm mastery. That was a fun game, let me tell you.

Gloves of Brethil -- was convinced to take just enough smithing to make throwing weapons

Plus:

Cloak of Maglor, Shadow Cloak of Luthien, Studded Leather of Aegnor ... I'm sure there were more. Starting with one of these items sort of encourages you to play in a very unique / different style. In some ways, it makes the game easier, but not that much easier -- I died quite early in all of these games. Probably because I was overexcited

We might see underused abilities (e.g. polearm mastery, throwing mastery, even Master Hunter / other perception abilities, certain songs) get more use if we encourage players to take them because of a "special item" build -- once you've been convinced to use them a few times, it becomes a bit easier to figure out how to work them into your own build.

There's a weird tension with some of the "cute" abilities that this mode completely obviates -- let's say I want to take polearm mastery at the beginning of the game. Now, I probably have to crapshoot at getting a good polearm, or put points in smithing to make one. The latter spreads my already thin points (from investing in a weird ability) even thinner, and that's just so I can get started. However, if I use a "normal" build (e.g. take Power) and then find a good spear at, say, 400', I'm still loathe to take polearm mastery because now it's more expensive, and the benefit isn't really that great.

OK, I'm done ranting haha. TL;DR can we please have christmas all year round in Sil 1.2? I'd be happy to e.g. take a score penalty to play this mode, so that we don't have the top 10 spots on the ladder occupied by characters who started with an unfair advantage.

[fph]

My thoughts exactly! This mode is great because it encourages you to adapt your playstyle to the objects you start with, instead of taking the same abilities over and over. It's fun.

[WildKhaine]

Yep, have to agree. It's been a lot of fun messing around with different abilities and styles. Nice to start with a artefact and build around it.

[HugoVirtuoso]

The 'random' really plays into this and makes gameplay much more interesting, in my opinion.

My proposal for v1.2 or future versions:
The 'finely wrapped present' should be implemented AS A an aptly-named 'half and Scatha's Challenge mode' BIRTH OPTION, if possible, to generate automatically on the 2nd level the player enters, i.e., on the level when the first forge gets generated, BUT WITH the perma-triple-Sil curse, WHEN OPENED!

[half]

This whole present thing has made me believe that the "start with a single artefact / cool item" mode would be a great mode / unlockable for Sil 1.2 (or whatever the version number will be).

Interesting. Scatha and I had been looking forward to the present season and to see what people's reactions would be. They are put in as an Easter Egg as a reference to the old Mac game Dark Castle. I like time-based things of this kind.

We avoided having large game-changing random effects early on in the game to avoid start-scumming. I still think this was a good design decision, though I'm very glad to hear that the presents can also lead to good effects on gameplay (as well as just fun). The idea of having this as an unlockable optional mode as well as a time of year mode might well work. As I said, we'll think about it.

[debo]

Interesting. Scatha and I had been looking forward to the present season and to see what people's reactions would be. They are put in as an Easter Egg as a reference to the old Mac game Dark Castle. I like time-based things of this kind.

We avoided having large game-changing random effects early on in the game to avoid start-scumming. I still think this was a good design decision, though I'm very glad to hear that the presents can also lead to good effects on gameplay (as well as just fun). The idea of having this as an unlockable optional mode as well as a time of year mode might well work. As I said, we'll think about it.

Well, ideally I'd be able to pick my starting present from a list rather than randomly getting one I'd really want this optional mode to be scored differently (or not at all) though, to make it clear that it's not "Sil proper" or something.

Anyhow, it was just an idea. I can always emulate it myself with wizard mode

[Starhawk]

I would like to chime in and state that starting with a random gift has been fun for me, too. Like some of the others in this thread, it's forced me to look at builds outside my comfort zone.

And proof that artifacts don't make the game too easy: I just had a character start with a fantastic Greatsword gift, stumble over Fingon at 200' then fall through a crumbling floor into a room where Glamdring sat, unguarded, on the floor. And STILL managed to get corralled by a mob of Easterlings and plinked to death. The lack of escapes in this game is really brutal. Wish I'd taken Exchange Places.

[debo]

I just read the Children of Húrin (fun read) and had a crazy idea: wasn't Maeglin supposed to be carrying Anguirel around at the time of his capture?

If this is the case, maybe it might be fun to give his melee attack a 'sharpness' effect? I know that there aren't any monsters that have this right now, and it might be too shocking to protection-based player to suddenly lose half their armor against a (+33, 2d8) attack, but I think it might do something to make him a bit less of a pushover at the depth he occurs.

It would be even cooler to give him Anguirel as a unique drop, but I don't like the idea of having a unique drop with sharpness on it

I had a bunch more jolts of inspiration while reading it, but this is the only one I remember haha

[Scatha]

If this is the case, maybe it might be fun to give his melee attack a 'sharpness' effect? I know that there aren't any monsters that have this right now, and it might be too shocking to protection-based player to suddenly lose half their armor against a (+33, 2d8) attack, but I think it might do something to make him a bit less of a pushover at the depth he occurs.

Actually if memory serves he used to have this property, and we took it out (and gave his attack a boost) when we removed it from other monsters. We were thinking of letting him use the Song of Sharpness when monster abilities come in.

[debo]

actually if memory serves he used to have this property, and we took it out (and gave his attack a boost) when we removed it from other monsters. We were thinking of letting him use the song of sharpness when monster abilities come in.

that is even cooler!!!!

[HallucinationMushroom]

This whole present experience thing has taught me that I would be equally entertained by just opening up any roguelike, starting up debug-mode, and just creating random exceptional objects all day. I feel so shallow now.

[Magnate]

This whole present experience thing has taught me that I would be equally entertained by just opening up any roguelike, starting up debug-mode, and just creating random exceptional objects all day. I feel so shallow now.

There's a space for you on the devteam ;-)

[Patashu]

This whole present experience thing has taught me that I would be equally entertained by just opening up any roguelike, starting up debug-mode, and just creating random exceptional objects all day. I feel so shallow now.

Have you considered playing Diablo?

[Starhawk]

It would be cool if the Doorkeeper (and other arrow-shooting uniques) had their archery abilities listed in the monster memory. Ow, ow, ow.

[half]

It would be cool if the Doorkeeper (and other arrow-shooting uniques) had their archery abilities listed in the monster memory. Ow, ow, ow.

These should already be in there. They certainly show up with Loremaster and a quick debug test suggests they appear as soon as you are hit with an arrow by one.