Sil 1.0.2

[decoy]

...if you are more than 5 squares away from them, they don't reproduce.

Are you sure about this? Once I got into the non-stealth-build game, I've definitely had worms effectively destroy a few levels--in some cases I never even knew they existed until the takeover was already so advanced that it was game over. Do they have to have line of sight?

In addition, there are always at least two stairs (up/down), but the worms could cut you off from both of them. There are also many in-game ways of dealing with them such as Follow Through, herbs of rage etc, though this might be difficult right at the start.

True, everything can be dealt with by some character with some ability or item at some point in the game, right? If I'm on a deeper level, I just shut the door and go around (as there are more stairs and more interconnected passageways and rooms so going around is more possible). However, up until about 400'-450' or so, if worms occupy a key room or the stairs (hopefully both stairs don't pop in the same room), that's it.

It doesn't bug me too much to wade in and perish, but it's not too satisfying either.

[debo]

Herbs of rage help with this a lot, and you get those fairly early. Also, I've had rooms FULL of worms and I still managed to shred through them with arrows from the door. Not always, but sometimes

You can stand far back enough to hit them with arrows without them reproducing.

Clearly doesn't work w shadow worms, but in my games I make sure to have inner light by the time I'm at 400' anyways, it's just a pain to deal with shadowcasters otherwise.

Anyhow, don't want to completely derail the conversation at hand by talking about worms That's another can of worms on its own.

[debo]

Yes, this.

Also, is the five squares linear distance (including through walls)? I'm just trying to think of how I can leave a room, explore a different part of the level, come back, and have it be full (literally full) of shadow worms (nasty death, by the way). I've definitely had similar experiences with green worms at early levels, which again turns the game into a writeoff if they are occupying a key room between me and the stairs (or the stairs room(s) themselves).

Aren't green worms slow? I've been in situations like there where I just take my armor off and wade in. Not guaranteed to work, but it's better than nothing

[debo]

Question: I'm on 400' and I entered a little pocket of rooms arranged in sort of a "swastika" pattern (sorry, couldn't think of a better analogy.) In the middle "hub" room there's a silent watcher!

Is this a "special" set of rooms, or is this watcher just realllly out of depth? I didn't find anything great in the adjoining rooms, so perhaps it was just a really crappy vault?

[HugoVirtuoso]

Question: I'm on 400' and I entered a little pocket of rooms arranged in sort of a "swastika" pattern (sorry, couldn't think of a better analogy.) In the middle "hub" room there's a silent watcher!

Is this a "special" set of rooms, or is this watcher just realllly out of depth? I didn't find anything great in the adjoining rooms, so perhaps it was just a really crappy vault?

Yes, it is a "special" set of rooms. It's a type of vault, I think. In this vault, you can expect a Silent Watcher. And you can expect some powerful monsters near it. Unless you have Vanish + Sprinting, I'd stay away from that area!! If you awaken the Silent Watcher it will 'screetch' to stun, cause, fear, and nearby enemies will come to investigate.

Alternatively, with high stealth, you can sneak past it. Or if you have high will / Clarity, you can get past safely. Or if you have damage output, you can actually kill it. In most cases, it's better to avoid the Silent Watcher.

And yes, that Silent Watcher is *very* out-of-depth at 400ft. I think they're native to 1000ft, if I'm not mistaken.

My two cents.

[WaveMotion]

Just downloaded Sil a couple days ago and I'm really enjoying it so far. Among the many roguelikes I've spent time playing, Sil shines as a truly unique jewel, in both the simplicity and the depth of its gameplay.

Anyway, I started an account to offer some comments:

• I don't know if this bug has already been reported, but the player can see when any door in the dungeon floor closes (or opens, presumably), whether it is in view of the character or not.*
  
• A humble feature request: I would strongly appreciate if you put in a key (probably shift-Z) that in a single press would make your character continue resting until a) an enemy comes into view b) Health or Voice is completely restored or c) a certain configurable number of turns has elapsed. Having to mash z to heal while hoping I notice in time when enemies arrive is a pretty annoying recurring chore.*
  
• This one's more personal opinion than anything else, but I've been wondering if anyone else regards violet molds as a problematic feature for the game. In the gap between the time I hit 200ft and the time that I get Keen Senses or a lantern, I find myself engaging in some pretty degenerate behavior to avoid them, such as firing a couple of arrows in whichever direction I'm walking toward in the dark. In any case, violet molds punish the player with a significant, semi-permanent disadvantage for a single mis-keypress (you'd almost never walk into range of one by choice); that strikes me as unnecessarily cruel design. All things considered, I think that violet molds are currently more tedious-making and unfun than they are worth, although simply putting them deeper may solve the problem.

I hope my criticisms above weren't too negative. Sil is a really promising game, and I'd love to see it improve further!

*EDIT: I guess the bug in the first bullet point was already pointed out in the 1.0.1 thread, and the feature proposed in the second bullet point has been in the game the whole time. Oops. Now all that's left is my opinionated rant.

[Magnate]

I don't know if this bug has already been reported, but the player can see when any door in the dungeon floor closes (or opens, presumably), whether it is in view of the character or not.

This is nothing to do with Sil and is a fundamental limitation of the angband game engine - the structure that holds the level data is also the data shown on the map - there is no separate data structure for what the player can see or sense or has previously known about. (The lighting code is done completely separately.) So it is not currently possible to avoid showing out-of-LOS terrain changes, though it is a long-term goal for V.

[debo]

This is nothing to do with Sil and is a fundamental limitation of the angband game engine - the structure that holds the level data is also the data shown on the map - there is no separate data structure for what the player can see or sense or has previously known about. (The lighting code is done completely separately.) So it is not currently possible to avoid showing out-of-LOS terrain changes, though it is a long-term goal for V.

I hope that this is never "fixed" in Sil, or I will lose more frequently than I already am

[Djabanete]

[*]This one's more personal opinion than anything else, but I've been wondering if anyone else regards violet molds as a problematic feature for the game. In the gap between the time I hit 200ft and the time that I get Keen Senses or a lantern, I find myself engaging in some pretty degenerate behavior to avoid them, such as firing a couple of arrows in whichever direction I'm walking toward in the dark. In any case, violet molds punish the player with a significant, semi-permanent disadvantage for a single mis-keypress (you'd almost never walk into range of one by choice); that strikes me as unnecessarily cruel design. All things considered, I think that violet molds are currently more tedious-making and unfun than they are worth, although simply putting them deeper may solve the problem.

I also feel that violet molds don't add much to the game. You can mitigate the risk of draining by staying out of dark rooms, but I've even found them in corridors before, so there's not much you can do. (I'll admit I never thought of the arrow trick before --- that's quite clever.)

I'm not much good at Sil, never have made it past 650 feet or so, but I'll still vouch that violet molds have not enriched my Sil experience

Edit: More on the arrow trick: I do appreciate non-obvious survival strategies as much as the next person, and they add to the game; but this particular one seems very labor-intensive on the part of the user, and I don't think game design should encourage that sort of thing in order to play optimally. Sil is generally very good about encouraging no-nonsense gameplay and I like that very much.

[T-Mick]

Excellent work

I have to say, as long as I've been playing roguelikes, I don't think any one of them has impressed me so much as Sil. Everything is clean and simple, and the game is delightfully cruel. That's exactly what a roguelike should be.

Doing away with character classes, my favorite element of an RPG, turns out to be my favorite part of Sil. There are so many potential strategies, I'm almost exited to die, as it give me an opportunity to try something new.

Thank you for giving the world this wonderful game!

[Jungle_Boy]

I too hate violet molds but the easiest way to deal with them is to get keen senses a little sooner and/or invest a couple points in will.

[HugoVirtuoso]

Violet molds are pitifully annoying. But, the !CON and Herbs of Restoration showing up later make up for it, in my experience.

[jujuben]

Violet molds are annoying, yes, but they make for some interesting early choices. Invest in smithing for a better light source and/or "con for the sustain? Keen senses? Pure combat and take your chances on avoiding them or finding con or restoration before you get into anything too nasty? Sil is all about non-trivial choices. Having a few of them early makes for a better game.

[debo]

Violet molds are annoying, yes, but they make for some interesting early choices. Invest in smithing for a better light source and/or "con for the sustain? Keen senses? Pure combat and take your chances on avoiding them or finding con or restoration before you get into anything too nasty? Sil is all about non-trivial choices. Having a few of them early makes for a better game.

Just out of curiousity, what can you forge at 100' that will give you greater than 1 light radius? Only things I can think of are amulet of blessed realm +0, or lesser jewel of brightness, both of which are much bigger investments than Keen Senses...

I've been doing the arrow trick as well + avoiding dark rooms -- lets me save on XP while still avoiding the molds.

[HugoVirtuoso]

Just out of curiousity, what can you forge at 100' that will give you greater than 1 light radius? Only things I can think of are amulet of blessed realm +0, or lesser jewel of brightness, both of which are much bigger investments than Keen Senses...

The only other thing that I can think of is a Brass Lantern of Brightness, depending on if you meet the requirement to make it.