Sil 1.0.1

[Narvius]

Indeed, I don't really consider Sil to be a Variant of Angband. Obviously it is descended from Angband and shares most of the display code, but almost every system that involves numbers is different. I think it is quite a bit more different from Angband than Angband 1.4 was from Moria (possibly more different from Angband than Angband 3.0 is from Moria) and we don't tend to think of Angband as a Moria Variant. So I'd probably say an 'Angband descendent' rather than an 'Angband Variant'. I'm not too bothered either way though.

It's probably just that it's somewhat customary to call Angband descendants variants. It's even up there in the navbar, third item from the left. I think everyone is aware of the magnitude of the difference nonetheless.

[Fendell Orcbane]

I think this is a good question. Compared to many games we've tried to be quite transparent about the mechanics (many are explained in detail in the manual, and a few more perhaps should be). We think they offer fun and interesting decisions, and it isn't suddenly obvious what to do when you know how the game works.

On the other hand if you enjoy exploring to discover first hand what is or isn't effective, then this could be a good reason to keep yourself from reading this information!





Hmm. There are eight players who have winners on the ladder, and another ten or so who have got to at least 600ft, which I think suggests that they have played at least a moderate amount. I really don't know what the actual number of players is, but I guess it's likely to be quite a bit higher than this because many players may not post on the ladder: there's some discussion of the games on other sites, and some people have registered on the forums here only to report bugs with the game (suggesting there may be more who never register).

I was thinking the other day that I'm addicted to what is a micro brew game. I don't know anyone that plays Angband, let alone Sil. And while I'm liking Sil better than Angband I couldn't imagine starting with Sil. Sil seems to be a game for those that have beaten V a few times and need a new challenge.

[Fendell Orcbane]

Why can a horse run faster than a human?

Good point, LOL.

[half]

Sil seems to be a game for those that have beaten V a few times and need a new challenge.

Interestingly only one of the playtesters (other than me) had played Angband before and in that case only for an hour or so. This was actually very useful for me when it came to breaking some of the Angband taboos. So I think it is entirely possible to start with Sil, and presumably despite being harder in some sense, it would take less time for most people to reach their first winner.

[Fendell Orcbane]

Interestingly only one of the playtesters (other than me) had played Angband before and in that case only for an hour or so. This was actually very useful for me when it came to breaking some of the Angband taboos. So I think it is entirely possible to start with Sil, and presumably despite being harder in some sense, it would take less time for most people to reach their first winner.

Well I don't know about that...I think with Angband you have a lot of help with the forum so its actually pretty easy to get a winner. Sil, you don't have the spoilers(although once you get lore master its is like having a spoiler file) or the advice that you do. Although I know how to beat Sil now,its just that Sil is *very* unforgiving...one mistake and you are done. Plus you need to be lucky in Sil. Angband you at least have a chance once thou get past the first few levels. Plus some of the Sil winners like Psi, and 'Mushroom, are really good at FA.
I think it took me 3 months to get a winner in Angband....While it hasn't been 3 months I don't know if I'll be in the green within that time. But I will say that I KNOW its possible to win and I know how to do it, now I just have to do it.
While in loving Sil, I think its hard just because of the luck factor,V has a luck factor too but V is more forgiving and its easier to get to a point where luck doesn't matter much anymore....With Sil you have to be in the Throne room before you reach that point and even then one false move and your game is over...or if you have too many bad rolls you are done for. With V by the time you face Morgoth you have escapes that can get you out of anything if you know when to use them.

[Fendell Orcbane]

Interestingly only one of the playtesters (other than me) had played Angband before and in that case only for an hour or so. This was actually very useful for me when it came to breaking some of the Angband taboos. So I think it is entirely possible to start with Sil, and presumably despite being harder in some sense, it would take less time for most people to reach their first winner.

BTW I wish I could code because I would love to build a variant with the best parts of Sil and V.

[Stephen2]

Firstly, great game... Really the best I've played in a long time, of this genre - very well done, the feel/setting, the tactics - all great

I've probably just learned the normal "newbie tricks" such as Evasion I find to be the most powerful in the game - pump early. Then a bit more Melee so you can hit more, then Song of Slaying, and by that stage you probably need some Will tricks.

I'm sure there are alternate ways to play though, but for now, I'll perservere, oh... and I do really hate any creature of darkness (releases spores - mushroom patch? and shadow bat).

Thanks for the fun and challenging game.

[Fendell Orcbane]

How does digging work? It seems like none of my characters could dig into walls.

[ekolis]

Apparently you need a digging tool, otherwise digging is 100% futile.

[Fendell Orcbane]

Apparently you need a digging tool, otherwise digging is 100% futile.

NO even digging with a shovel doesn't work on anything other than shovels.

[Psi]

I had one character who could dig through granite - that might have been with my +4 mattock though and a whole stack of strength. Other characters have failed to break through secret doors with a mattock!

[half]

How does digging work? It seems like none of my characters could dig into walls.

Digging +0 (most weapons) => can't dig through anything
Digging +1 (shovels) => rubble
Digging +2 (mattocks) => rubble & quartz
Digging +3 (enchanted mattocks) => rubble, quartz, granite & secret doors

If you are not strong enough to wield your digging item, you get a -1 penalty to your Digging score.

All digging is deterministic (no chance) and takes a single turn. Rubble gets turned into floor, secret doors get turned into broken doors, everything else gets turned into rubble.

I think this is a much more intuitive system than V, with no characters hacking down granite walls with daggers etc. It occurs faster than is realistic, but that is true for many things in the game (e.g. resting, studying from spellbooks in V, smithing etc).

[Fendell Orcbane]

Digging +0 (most weapons) => can't dig through anything
Digging +1 (shovels) => rubble
Digging +2 (mattocks) => rubble & quartz
Digging +3 (enchanted mattocks) => rubble, quartz, granite & secret doors

If you are not strong enough to wield your digging item, you get a -1 penalty to your Digging score.

All digging is deterministic (no chance) and takes a single turn. Rubble gets turned into floor, secret doors get turned into broken doors, everything else gets turned into rubble.

I think this is a much more intuitive system than V, with no characters hacking down granite walls with daggers etc. It occurs faster than is realistic, but that is true for many things in the game (e.g. resting, studying from spellbooks in V, smithing etc).

It might be more intuitive that V,but you need to be lucky enough to find a good digger. If Sil has any fault,its that luck plays too much of a roll in the game.

[Narvius]

I don't think that's true. True would be you have to have luck to get exactly what you want. This is more about making the best of the cards you are dealt.

[Psi]

It might be more intuitive that V,but you need to be lucky enough to find a good digger. If Sil has any fault,its that luck plays too much of a roll in the game.

I disagree. Why do you even need a good digger in Sil? Yes you need *a* digger to shift rubble by the latter half of the dungeon, but there is no real need to dig walls unless you get a freak situation with a Grotesque. The times I'd have liked an enchanted mattock (and a pile of strength to wield it - how much is that by the way?) is when I know where a secret door is (because of _Revelations say) but my perception isn't high enough to make the roll to find it and I've reluctantly had to put points in perception to proceed.

Certainly luck helps (like finding a _Revelations when you are forge hunting), but Sil seems balanced enough that you don't need to be lucky.