Sil

[WaveMotion]

Sil secret techs:
-Throwing potions of slowness at enemies

I had no idea this was even a thing. Feels very Nethackish. What other potions does this work for?

Edit: to add a tech of my own:
-The guaranteed first forge appears at 50ft if you go upstairs from your first level instead of downstairs. The forge vault is correspondingly easier, which is useful for gimpy starts e.g. the +2 ring of accuracy start or the no-melee Versatility start.

[HallucinationMushroom]

lol, it's funny because it's true. I do the herb/stave/potion bit, at least. Thanks for the tip about the trumpet... I never remember to check for voice potions.

[Patashu]

Sil secret techs:
-Closing doors so you can see on the map when they're opened
-Throwing potions of slowness at enemies
-Building up Song of Slaying on worm masses
-Sprinting + Flanking
-Song of Freedom so your sprint is uninterrupted by doors
-Flankings that count as charging too
-Getting free hits every time with Sprinting
-Exploiting intelligent monsters' attempts to flank you for free hits/dodges
-Artifice in general
-Wearing Wrath/Danger deliberately
-Eating herbs of rage/quaffing constitution for the hp
-Fear effects on Kemenrauko to dig tunnels for you
-Having hp loss, confusion, poison and voice loss from a trumpet just to unambiguously identify potions
-Having hp loss, 'hungry' and stat loss just to unambiguously identify herbs
-Standing near a closed door, an open door, a stairwell, monsters and with a cursed item just to unambiguously identify staves
-You are covered in acid! Your Set of Gauntlets of Clumsiness is destroyed!

[Scatha]

I don't know where you're getting that math from -- it seems high, given the XP decay. But even if those numbers are accurate, you'd be wasting a boatload of turns doing that, for a measly 1000xp.

Unless you meet that worm mass at 950' with your MinDepth=1000', you're giving up valuable exploration potential on the later floors, just to grind XP on worms. I'd much rather take those turns and go looking for monsters I haven't seen yet, or artifacts, or forges, etc.

Actually the decay function is such that if it weren't for integer rounding there would be an unlimited amount of experience available from any type of worm mass!

We have thought about this issue of worm masses, and ultimately we're not too worried about abuse for the reason that debo mentions: you have to use another resource (time) to get this to work. There's still something a little odd, though, in that you're probably best letting them multiply a bit so you can kill the first ten, say (which doesn't use much time). This doesn't make optimal play boring, but does give a slight flavour disconnect.

It's not clear how the mechanic should work, otherwise, though. You suggest differentiating the originals versus the clones, but this is using an artificial distinction from the game engine. They're splitting and multiplying, but why should this group over here count as "original" whereas these others don't? Other versions might give experience for the first kill of any with the same progenitor, or only when you wipe out all of one origin, but these again rely on information which is opaque to the player.

It's a good observation, though, and I'm not certain there isn't a better choice here.

By the way, yes, recognising Radiance requires a perception check. Perhaps it shouldn't.

[debo]

When a worm splits, the clones shouldn't give any exp. Reasoning: I can stand around and wait for 1 shadow worm mass to split into 100 while killing them all, and gain 964 exp instead of 200 exp, with little danger except player boredom. This seems against the Sil philosophy.

I don't know where you're getting that math from -- it seems high, given the XP decay. But even if those numbers are accurate, you'd be wasting a boatload of turns doing that, for a measly 1000xp.

Unless you meet that worm mass at 950' with your MinDepth=1000', you're giving up valuable exploration potential on the later floors, just to grind XP on worms. I'd much rather take those turns and go looking for monsters I haven't seen yet, or artifacts, or forges, etc.

[Patashu]

When a worm splits, the clones shouldn't give any exp. Reasoning: I can stand around and wait for 1 shadow worm mass to split into 100 while killing them all, and gain 964 exp instead of 200 exp, with little danger except player boredom. This seems against the Sil philosophy.

[debo]

Two bugs:
-I shot an arrow from a bow of brilliance down a corridor and it didn't auto-identify. (I had three tiles of light and it illuminated one tile just past my natural light)

I don't know for sure, but this still might depend on a perception check?

[Patashu]

Two bugs:
-If you turn on autopickup and prompt, 'g' or ',' isn't a valid answer to the y/n prompt (and it should be y)
-If you turn on autopickup and prompt, 'g' or ',' now do nothing when standing over an item
EDIT:
-I shot an arrow from a bow of brilliance down a corridor and it didn't auto-identify. (I had three tiles of light and it illuminated one tile just past my natural light)

[Patashu]

Is it possible to get a console version of Sil for Windows 7, so I can termcast it?

[Jungle_Boy]

On the subject of molds: I've gotten more okay with violet molds and stat-drain since the last time I complained about it, but I still think molds the player can see should trigger a prompt like "really step next to the violet mold (y/n)?" when you try to walk next to one. Molds seem equivalent to traps, which get a similar treatment.

I like this idea but only for molds that can be seen before you step next to them. I don't know how many times I have been going along and see a mold and step next to it before my brain can tell my fingers to stop pushing buttons.

[WaveMotion]

-Whenever the player's light source is not illuminating anything (and no monsters are in view?), he should turn the light off for you to save fuel.

This would be great. When I started playing Sil, I felt like I should be unequipping my lantern every time I walked into a lit room, and I suspect I'm not the only one! I actually did that for a bunch of games before I gave up.

Edit:

It is annoying when you go around a corner, stepping next to a violet mold that was out of line of sight the previous turn, and get drained for constitution on the first try. Is it possible to restore this? It'd be nice if there was a skill to do it (along the lines of the skill that lets you remove cursed items)

Can't you restore lost constitution with a potion of constitution or an herb of restoration? You can also get Keen Senses from the perception tree, which I think will let you see spaces around corners that your light doesn't illuminate (can someone confirm?). If you have light radius 2, better move non-diagonally in dark spaces, just to be sure.

On the subject of molds: I've gotten more okay with violet molds and stat-drain since the last time I complained about it, but I still think molds the player can see should trigger a prompt like "really step next to the violet mold (y/n)?" when you try to walk next to one. Molds seem equivalent to traps, which get a similar treatment.

[Patashu]

Sil bugs:
-If you throw a potion (like slowness) in a direction past lots of monsters, it will 'smash' on every single monster's head and continue past without doing anything.
-I found an unopenable small wooden chest chest. I already opened a small wooden chest on this level, but the second one I ctrl+dir at and it just swings at midair. I'll try carrying it to another level and seeing if that fixes it. EDIT: First I found a third chest (this one was large wooden), that one I can open with ctrl+dir fine. EDIT2: Still can't open it :'(

Windows 7

I also have Sil suggestions:
-Whenever the player's light source is not illuminating anything (and no monsters are in view?), he should turn the light off for you to save fuel.
-It would be nice to reference a table of all possibilities for potions, herbs and so on (or perhaps all that player has seen in their history). I use the table in Brogue to decide how to do test-iding, for example.
-It is annoying when you go around a corner, stepping next to a violet mold that was out of line of sight the previous turn, and get drained for constitution on the first try. Is it possible to restore this? It'd be nice if there was a skill to do it (along the lines of the skill that lets you remove cursed items)
-Colouring. IMO important lines and interesting things should have a different colour so they visually stand out. Examples:
---Better than usual weapons should have slightly different colour for their names, and {special} ones a different colour again (e.g. cyan and yellow instead of white, dark cyan and dark yellow instead of brown/gray...)
---Weights should be coloured one thing if they are lighter than normal, and another if they are heavier than normal
---Text in the message log could be many different colours to go with different events. For example, in DC:SS misses and 0-damage hits are gray while normal hits are white. Kills could be red, debilitating events some colour like green and soforth.
-The ability to set breakpoints that wait for confirmation when unusual things happen that need your attention. This is a DC:SS feature, and in DC:SS you use regular expressions to define the lines you want it to wait on.

Consumable use-id guide

For potions:
Lose some hp and some voice. If it is not identified on use, it is either Slow Poison (more likely) or Clarity.

For herbs:
Lose some hp. If it is not identified on use, it is Restoration, Sustenance or Emptiness.

For trumpets:
Use it at an enemy a few times. If it is not identified after that, it is Warning.

For staves:
Be near an open door and a closed door with monsters nearby. If it is not identified after that, it is Sanctity, Summoning or Entrapment.

[Jungle_Boy]

Running out of light does interrupt smithing but you can resume smithing in the dark so that seems a little counter intuitive. Or you could take off your light source to save turns.

[Scatha]

I like mattocks. I like hammers. They can both be great in certain circumstances. Quarterstaves, on the other hand, could use some love. As they stand, they're only useful for non-combatants and archers who haven't found a defender yet. I think they'd be a great candidate for some interesting enchantments a la daggers (perhaps some will abilities, light and/or regen), and/or getting the old smithing discount for 2 handed weapons, for archers and noncombatants who really just want an artifact stat-stick.

If you implemented these, the only additional weapon I might ask for would be a similar but weaker one-handed version (scepters, perhaps?) that does almost no damage, but has some of the bonuses/abilities/smithing discounts and allows the use of a shield.

At some point we had plans to introduce sceptres very much in this vein, and perhaps give quarterstaves some interesting versions too. I'd mostly forgotten that, but the fact that you pretty much recreated the proposal exactly makes me think it more natural than I did!

[jujuben]

We've thought about this, but there are actually very few mentions of blunt weapons in Tolkien. It's possible one will be added at some point (but I think it would be fine without support -- mattocks get plenty of use without it).

I like mattocks. I like hammers. They can both be great in certain circumstances. Quarterstaves, on the other hand, could use some love. As they stand, they're only useful for non-combatants and archers who haven't found a defender yet. I think they'd be a great candidate for some interesting enchantments a la daggers (perhaps some will abilities, light and/or regen), and/or getting the old smithing discount for 2 handed weapons, for archers and noncombatants who really just want an artifact stat-stick.

If you implemented these, the only additional weapon I might ask for would be a similar but weaker one-handed version (scepters, perhaps?) that does almost no damage, but has some of the bonuses/abilities/smithing discounts and allows the use of a shield.