Help me make my new variant! (please!)

[will_asher]

So, I'm looking into making a new variant since I just came back to Angband, and I always think the most fun thing to do with a game is tweak it, tinker with it, tamper with it, customize it, alter it, twist it, slime it, and otherwise modify it. But I'm going to need some help because I am much more of a hack than an actual coder/programmer, so this thread is where I'll ask questions.

First, is the "angband_visual_studio_step_by_step" file updated and current? (It doesn't seem like it...)
I've only used two compilers before. One is Visual Studio, and I don't remember what other was, but it's old, probably obsolete, and anyway it isn't one of the options listed in the compiling instructions here:

https://angband.readthedocs.io/en/latest/hacking/compiling.html#windows

I just downloaded Visual Studio and it's changed a bit since I last used it too. When you bring up the list of languages, it lists C# and C++, but not C. Do I need to use an older version of Visual Studio? Or is C pretty much included under C++?

PS: Should this go here or in the variants subforum?

[Pete Mack]

Sort of. You will end up with mangled symbols, but so long as its entirely compiled in C++ and doesn't rely on C libraries, it'll run. You may need a few extern C declarations. The trouble is it's hard to maintain back compatibility.
Gcc is not hard to use. And there is a graphical debugger. The trouble is it doesn't include an IDE.

[backwardsEric]

First, is the "angband_visual_studio_step_by_step" file updated and current? (It doesn't seem like it...)
I've only used two compilers before. One is Visual Studio, and I don't remember what other was, but it's old, probably obsolete, and anyway it isn't one of the options listed in the compiling instructions here:

https://angband.readthedocs.io/en/latest/hacking/compiling.html#windows

Last fall, someone tried to follow those step-by-step instructions. The discussion that resulted starts with this post . The documentation was updated a bit and the source can be found on the GitHub site. There was still some questions about what to use for the locale and encoding of source code character strings and that's an open issue on the GitHub site.

[will_asher]

Last fall, someone tried to follow those step-by-step instructions. The discussion that resulted starts with this post . The documentation was updated a bit and the source can be found on the GitHub site. There was still some questions about what to use for the locale and encoding of source code character strings and that's an open issue on the GitHub site.

okay, I'll make sure I follow the compiling instructions you linked to, to make sure I have the recent update of them.

Sort of. You will end up with mangled symbols, but so long as its entirely compiled in C++ and doesn't rely on C libraries, it'll run. You may need a few extern C declarations. The trouble is it's hard to maintain back compatibility.
Gcc is not hard to use. And there is a graphical debugger. The trouble is it doesn't include an IDE.

What's an IDE?
So Gcc is another compiler? There's no instructions for compiling with it on the manual here: https://angband.readthedocs.io/en/la...compiling.html
Do you think Gcc would be easier than using Visual Studio (even though Visual Studio is the only one I've used before)?

[backwardsEric]

okay, I'll make sure I follow the compiling instructions you linked to, to make sure I have the recent update of them.

Eastwind921 contributed instructions and project files for Visual Studio 2019, so that's an alternative to the step-by-step instructions mentioned in the documentation. Those instructions and project files are in src/win/vs2019. It's possible that the list of files within the project files is somewhat out-of-date for 4.2.1.

What's an IDE?
So Gcc is another compiler? There's no instructions for compiling with it on the manual here: https://angband.readthedocs.io/en/la...compiling.html
Do you think Gcc would be easier than using Visual Studio (even though Visual Studio is the only one I've used before)?

IDE is an integrated development environment, usually providing access to an editor, a compiler, a debugger, and other tools in the same interface. Visual Studio is an IDE.

Yes, gcc is another compiler, usually used on Linux or Unix systems. For Windows, one would likely use MinGW port of gcc. The basic instructions for using that to compile Angband are in this part of the documentation . Pete Mack or someone else can chime in about what's easier to use, though the answer will likely depend on what you're used to.

[will_asher]

Eastwind921 contributed instructions and project files for Visual Studio 2019, so that's an alternative to the step-by-step instructions mentioned in the documentation. Those instructions and project files are in src/win/vs2019. It's possible that the list of files within the project files is somewhat out-of-date for 4.2.1.

Thanks, I'll look for that.

IDE is an integrated development environment, usually providing access to an editor, a compiler, a debugger, and other tools in the same interface. Visual Studio is an IDE.

Yes, gcc is another compiler, usually used on Linux or Unix systems. For Windows, one would likely use MinGW port of gcc. The basic instructions for using that to compile Angband are in this part of the documentation . Pete Mack or someone else can chime in about what's easier to use, though the answer will likely depend on what you're used to.

Well, I'm going to need an IDE for making a variant, so gcc isn't going to work for this.

[Pete Mack]

You still can create C projects in VS2019.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=how+to+create+a+c+program+in+vs+2019

[will_asher]

You still can create C projects in VS2019.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...ram+in+vs+2019

Thanks. that'll help

(now why didn't I think of doing a search for it?)

[Pete Mack]

I found your assertion highly improbable because I know MS still writes kernel code, and kernel adjacent code like device drivers, in C. C++ is just not a good language for this kind of thing. There are managed code kernels, but the languages are really crazy.

[Tibarius]

variant creation

1. I would like to point out that it would be much better if variants could be created by using a text editor just modifying setup files. Unluckily the latest developments were a step back in this question. The new book shop code was hardcoded instead to use configuration files.

2. You don't need an IDE. I come along quite fine with notepad++ as texteditor (windows system) and using a c++ compiler to create executabels. The advantage of notepad++ is, it is fast, handles different encoding standards and is easy to use while offering almost everything one can think of in form of customization.

[will_asher]

1. I would like to point out that it would be much better if variants could be created by using a text editor just modifying setup files. Unluckily the latest developments were a step back in this question. The new book shop code was hardcoded instead to use configuration files.

I don't really think this is practical. I think no matter how much stuff you put into the text files, there's nearly always going to be changes a variant maker is going to want to make that requires going into the code.

2. You don't need an IDE. I come along quite fine with notepad++ as texteditor (windows system) and using a c++ compiler to create executables. The advantage of notepad++ is, it is fast, handles different encoding standards and is easy to use while offering almost everything one can think of in form of customization.

An IDE makes it much easier. Among other things, being able to search the whole codebase at once for something is very important to me.

I'm happy that monster.txt doesn't go by numbers anymore, but an unfortunate side effect of that is just changing the name of one monster breaks savefiles (and tiles).

[wobbly]

I don't really think this is practical. I think no matter how much stuff you put into the text files, there's nearly always going to be changes a variant maker is going to want to make that requires going into the code.


An IDE makes it much easier. Among other things, being about to search the whole codebase at once for something is very important to me.

You can actually still do that in notepad++ but at the end of the day it makes sense to use whatever works for you.

I remember Dajangband being fun the few times I played. Good luck

[will_asher]

You can actually still do that in notepad++ but at the end of the day it makes sense to use whatever works for you.

I remember Dajangband being fun the few times I played. Good luck

Thanks.
It's always nice to hear of someone who's played DaJAngband and liked it.

[will_asher]

I'm thinking about actually getting around to compile Angband and start looking at the code (I've been going through monster.txt -I forgot how time consuming that can be).
@Pete, I've noticed you reporting a few bugs since the latest release. Would you recommend waiting until more bugs are fixed in V before I fork and start hacking my variant? (I'm not in a rush to get to the code. I'm still not quite halfway through my modding of monster.txt) Basically, how common/serious are the bugs you've noticed in the current version?

[Pete Mack]

No major bugs, and certainly no issue at all if you branch from V in Github--which i *strongly* recommend, or you will be patching V bugs essentially by yourself. You probably do want to branch from the next official release, though, when any changes to spells have been finalized.