Future of Angband development

[LostTemplar]

Btw what is so bad in search command, why not just remove magical detection, but still have search ?

[Mikko Lehtinen]

All trap detection is passive. No search command. You get one chance to notice a trap based on your current search/score. Once you've seen the square you get no more chances even if you have better search.

That's the FayAngband method.

I also tied Wisdom to Perception to make it more relevant to non-spellcasters.

[buzzkill]

re searching: I'm all for passive LoS trap detection. I don't don't see a problem with at the same time having a search command, so long as it gives diminishing returns, so repeatedly spamming the 's' button is counter-productive in general use, but might be worthwhile if you really, really, really know that there is a trap on the space and have no alternative (tunneling, phase, etc).

My model for the diminishing returns would be something like a half-life initially based on searching ability. Once the probability (of finding a trap) drops below 5%, then no further searching is possible, and a message given "You've searched every nook and cranny, if there's a trap here you're not capable of finding it". Great searchers could search extensively before exhausting all possibilities. Poor searchers will run out of places to look quickly.

I also be careful not to make traps inconsequential. Traps that kill you are bad (but such are the consequences of poor searching). Traps than almost kill you are good. If traps become overly-weak to avoid "dicking over" the player, then we're no better off than we are now (and the traps are already lame).

[Nick]

All trap detection is passive. No search command. You get one chance to notice a trap based on your current search/score. Once you've seen the square you get no more chances even if you have better search. The chance can be relatively high or not depending on whether you want traps to be mostly known or mostly unknown. That obviously has an impact on how lethal they should be also.

Neat. I also like Derakon's idea of more "trappy terrain" (standard disclaimer - FA already has some of this), and having some traps already visible (in vaults, for example).

Note too that removing the search command would require a new way of handling secret doors - or else you could keep the search command, and just have it only apply to doors.

[ghengiz]

Phase door effect instead of long-distance teleport?

it seems a reasonable compromise

[Nomad]

What about teleport traps? Those can be quite lethal, even if you have zero-fail escapes.

Phase door effect instead of long-distance teleport?

[AnonymousHero]

What about teleport traps? Those can be quite lethal, even if you have zero-fail escapes.

[Magnate]

I agree with your premises. But I think hidden traps are a flavor thing that we can't afford to lose completely.

Solution that follows Takkaria's post and your own approach is:

All trap detection is passive. No search command. You get one chance to notice a trap based on your current search/score. Once you've seen the square you get no more chances even if you have better search. The chance can be relatively high or not depending on whether you want traps to be mostly known or mostly unknown. That obviously has an impact on how lethal they should be also.

Passive means it's not repetitive and you don't have "press X not to die." The reason the "only 1 chance" thing is important is to prevent a weird, detection-style play where you wander to the "last known safe" square, equip your +Search gear to "see" the other squares, take it back off, and proceed. With only 1 chance, either you wear your +Search gear or not and that's it. It functions more like a swap and less like a rod of detection or something.

Yes yes yes. One-shot passive trap detection all the way. I vote that traps are quite hard to spot, but don't completely dick you over. So -2 to speed instead of -10, for example. Much much shorter durations of blindness, confusion etc., so you might actually survive them if it happens in combat. (If you're not in combat, it doesn't matter how long they are.) Weaker summoning traps (single monsters?). But trap doors still mean you don't get to that 4d5 longsword ...

[d_m]

My personal favored approach is to replace traps with terrain (which would create interesting combat decisions without having to be detected) and NPP-style turret traps (which should be obvious on sight, most likely, but even so create interesting decisions especially in vaults).

I agree with your premises. But I think hidden traps are a flavor thing that we can't afford to lose completely.

Solution that follows Takkaria's post and your own approach is:

All trap detection is passive. No search command. You get one chance to notice a trap based on your current search/score. Once you've seen the square you get no more chances even if you have better search. The chance can be relatively high or not depending on whether you want traps to be mostly known or mostly unknown. That obviously has an impact on how lethal they should be also.

Passive means it's not repetitive and you don't have "press X not to die." The reason the "only 1 chance" thing is important is to prevent a weird, detection-style play where you wander to the "last known safe" square, equip your +Search gear to "see" the other squares, take it back off, and proceed. With only 1 chance, either you wear your +Search gear or not and that's it. It functions more like a swap and less like a rod of detection or something.

[Jungle_Boy]

Sucky change...bring back the potions!

Also, traps should perhaps be transparent tiles overlaying the dungeon floor, much like items on dungeon floor are shown.

Actually I like the change since it means you can restore stats much easier at low levels and by the time your level is higher you can find a mushroom of restoring or you at least have options to avoid the stat drain fights.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Just to chime in for a sec, it seems like lately everybody has been on the same page lately and development fired back up again, things are moving in a good direction for 2012!

[Derakon]

My suggestions:

<snip traps discussion>

As I've said before, I don't really care that much what happens to traps so long as traps are either always 100% detectable or otherwise are completely rethought as a concept. The current trap system amounts to "detect regularly or risk being randomly dicked over"; changing that to "randomly get dicked over" isn't an improvement.

My personal favored approach is to replace traps with terrain (which would create interesting combat decisions without having to be detected) and NPP-style turret traps (which should be obvious on sight, most likely, but even so create interesting decisions especially in vaults).

One incremental change that isn't "revert it" is to make stat potions restore only one point of each stat per level. Maybe also be worth splitting out body/soulkeeping into three separate rings rather than just the two. Maybe STR/INT DEX/WIS CON/CHR?

The bodykeeping/soulkeeping rings are really marginal anyway; making them weaker just means that nobody will ever use them. Well, outside of the "I just found an X-keeping ring and I'm about to fight a drainer; might as well equip it for that one fight" type of situation.

Combat

I don't know if you've been paying any attention to the v4 subforum, but we're completely reworking combat. To summarize the changes:

* to-hit is replaced by DEX-influenced attack speed ("finesse")
* to-dam is replaced by a STR-influenced percentile multiplier on the dice damage ("prowess") (i.e. +50 == +50% damage)
* Every weapon has two multipliers that control how strongly they're impacted by these two values ("balance" and "heft"). A dagger has excellent balance but bad heft, so you can get a high attack speed with it but won't get much benefit from improving your prowess.
* Every class has different skill growths in finesse and prowess

The basic mechanics have been implemented and are apparently working reasonably well so far, though we of course have a lot of balancing work to do. Meanwhile, Fizzix is implementing evasion and armor for monsters, to replace the existing AC system.

I know you're talking about minor changes that could easily be implemented, and these are instead major. I just wanted you to be aware of recent developments.

[takkaria]

Hmm, with trap detection, here's my summary of where we're up to:
1. They're a do-X-avoid-death mechanic, which is boring
2. Traps outside of combat situations are boring, inside combat situations they aren't
3. Searching is currently a relatively useless skill

The solutions so far have been some combination of:
* remove 100% accurate magical detection
* make searching 100% accurate, either passively or actively
* make searching LOS based instead of vicinity based
* make trap doors and teleport runes always visible dungeon features
* make traps more avoidable with a trap evasion skill, based on DEX
* merge perception and searching skills

I think as an additional constraint, bio_hazard has it totally right: "Angband just wouldn't be the same without the exquisite agony of killing some important monster, walking over to pick up the loot, and falling through a trap door you forgot to detect."

My suggestions:

Removing 100% accurate magical detection combined with making searching LOS based seem no-brainers. 100% accurate passive detection is good for gameplay but not for theme. Merging perception and searching seems sensible, too.

If we want to remove the possibility for rewarding tedious play, we could make it so that if you don't spot a trap the first three times you see a grid, you're never going to spot it.

Other idea for traps I had when thinking about this were traps that trigger the second time you walk onto them and traps that trigger when you leave a square, not when you enter it. (Encouraging you to teleport away, I guess.)

Stat restore

One incremental change that isn't "revert it" is to make stat potions restore only one point of each stat per level. Maybe also be worth splitting out body/soulkeeping into three separate rings rather than just the two. Maybe STR/INT DEX/WIS CON/CHR?

Combat

Same things came up as always. Relatively easy wins that could be tweaked in isolation:

• rejigging blows to ensure starting characters just can't get 3 blows/round
• make critical hits for heavier weapons significantly more important

Also, UnAngband restricts to-dam bonuses to no higher than the max weapon damage. This is an easy win. Maybe we could do a similar thing to restrict STR bonuses with light weapons. After all, even if you're really strong, there's only so much you can do with a dagger on a single blow...

[Derakon]

There actually aren't restore potions at all, currently. Your options for restoring stats are to level up, eat a mushroom of Restoring, or drink one of these potions:

* Stat-swap that boosts the stat in question (e.g. Brawn for STR drain)
* Stat gain for the stat in question
* Augmentation
* *Enlightenment* (for INT/WIS only)
* Life

In the early game you should generally rely on levelups; later on stat potions become more available. There's a brief window where you're around level 25-30, so levelups are harder to come by, but the various potions are in short supply. In which case, well, I hope you either hoarded a ,Restoring or have a good launcher handy.

[fizzix]

Sucky change...bring back the potions!

Also, traps should perhaps be transparent tiles overlaying the dungeon floor, much like items on dungeon floor are shown.

I agree with the second. But there's a problem with the restore potions. Namely that it led to town scumming for restore potions.