DSM squelch as good!!!

[Derakon]

Or we modify the "good" squelch to ignore items with inherent attributes, and add, say, Slay Animal to scythes of slicing, and Resist Shards to adamantite plate armor. Just as an example. Those are, to my knowledge, the only top-tier items without inherent attributes (beyond mere indestructibility) as it stands.

[Magnate]

Because the person who added DSM egos didn't do anything to the squelch system to accommodate the change ([edit] except to include them with regular body armor).

IIRC these changes were separate and unrelated. I combined DSM squelching with regular body armour because people actually *asked* for that. (One of the irritations about joining the devteam is how everybody who isn't on the devteam seems to have a different recall of the ebb and flow of who asked for what when, and how much they contradicted each other over time.) Anyway, it was a five-minute change, easy to undo if people don't like it. Rewriting the squelch system is a bigger piece of work, and I have always maintained that we should borrow from NPP both for the system design and the UI.

@Derakon: I wouldn't mind squelching by ego type, it's probably fine-grained enough without needing to go all the way to squelching by individual property - but a 1d4 dagger of Extra Attacks is a whole different issue from a BoC of Extra Attacks, so you still need a second dimension whichever you choose.

[Magnate]

Um, well on reflection I realise that it's not rune-based - I do recommend the NPP approach, though, wherever you get it from.

This is genius. What were you smoking?

[Derakon]

@Derakon: I wouldn't mind squelching by ego type, it's probably fine-grained enough without needing to go all the way to squelching by individual property - but a 1d4 dagger of Extra Attacks is a whole different issue from a BoC of Extra Attacks, so you still need a second dimension whichever you choose.

Certainly, but Extra Attacks is sufficiently special that I wouldn't squelch it anyway. Individual items can be squelched individually, which is sufficient for this case.

Squelching doesn't need to handle everything, IMO; it just needs to handle enough that the user doesn't feel like they're wearing down their 'k' key every time they sort through loot. It's already a huge improvement over the old days.

[PowerDiver]

IIRC these changes were separate and unrelated. I combined DSM squelching with regular body armour because people actually *asked* for that.

I beg your forgiveness for blaming you. I remember you saying you did it, but I must admit I don't remember you ever saying it was a good idea.

Have you got a better idea than separate squelch for every different DSM?

[Timo Pietilä]

Pseudo always says ego for any non-cursed ego. You have to wield to differentiate excellent vs splendid.

That's the bug, it was wielded when it got pseudo. I needed to remove it and put it back on before it got differentiated as splendid. Either it should have been recognized immediately upon wielding as splendid (it had that lite), or it should have done that when pseudo kicked in without removing and putting it back on. I'd prefer "recognizable upon wielding" -things to do the first one.

[Nick]

This is genius. What were you smoking?

Well, I knew my ID-by-use was different to Vanilla's, and I just didn't really think about how.

In case anyone's interested (or not, frankly), here is how ego-ID wroks in FA:

• Each ego type needs to be identified once before it is known (and remembered by everseen).
• Each ego-item has a list of properties which will identify it.
• Once one of these properties is recognised (by use of that item) the ego is known.
• Details of individual proerties of a particular item (random resists, plusses, etc) may remain unknown after the ego is recognised.

Note that some egos are obvious on wield or pickup (from stat bonuses for example).

[Magnate]

That's the bug, it was wielded when it got pseudo. I needed to remove it and put it back on before it got differentiated as splendid. Either it should have been recognized immediately upon wielding as splendid (it had that lite), or it should have done that when pseudo kicked in without removing and putting it back on. I'd prefer "recognizable upon wielding" -things to do the first one.

That is certainly a bug - splendid items should instantly be noted as splendid on wield, regardless of whether they're already pseudo'd or not. Can you reproduce this? Ideal would be a savefile containing an un-pseudo'd item that should be splendid but does not show up as such on wield.

[Magnate]

I beg your forgiveness for blaming you. I remember you saying you did it, but I must admit I don't remember you ever saying it was a good idea.

Thank you. I confess that I couldn't see any harm in it, and at least it has flushed out a few issues and generated some thinking and discussion.

Have you got a better idea than separate squelch for every different DSM?

I'm afraid I have quite strong views on squelch, and since it's not high enough up my list for me to put my time where my mouth is and code them, I tend to leave it. FWIW, I believe that we should be able to choose to squelch any combination of properties present or absent on any base item - if I decide I don't ever want to see a mithril shield with rCold unless it also has >= +3 CON, I should be able to arrange that. I can (roughly) work out the squelching code in my head, and once had a fairly good idea of how a multi-screen UI ought to work, but I cannot code UI for toffee, so it is unlikely to get done. NPP squelch would be a good enough alternative.

To answer your question directly, I don't think it's worth much time to 'fix' the DSMs in the current system - I would rather whoever did that either ported in NPP squelch or rewrote squelch anew. But one simple fix might worth a try: change the concept of "excellent with high resists" into simply "with high resists", i.e. take out the test for o_ptr->ego. That way the "high" DSMs will automatically be considered "excellent" for squelch purposes, and it doesn't matter whether there are ego DSMs or not.

EDIT: I have a horrible suspicion that Derakon already suggested that. Oh well. It would have the side effect of not squelching plain BoCs and MoDs as well.

[Timo Pietilä]

That is certainly a bug - splendid items should instantly be noted as splendid on wield, regardless of whether they're already pseudo'd or not. Can you reproduce this? Ideal would be a savefile containing an un-pseudo'd item that should be splendid but does not show up as such on wield.

I seem to be unable to reproduce that. It might be artifact of playing with debug-mode IE: it was already on when I changed it's type, and because of that got "un-identified" until pseudo kick in. That just doesn't happen in real games.